District Puts WPF on Notice

[AmazingGrace]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Scotty,
You are right - it is not something being slammed down the throat any longer.

God will have a church. He is building His church. Much has changed since I've come this way 22 years ago. I would prefer the church to evolve into what God want us to be, what He expects us to be. Each person must follow their heart. We need to respect each person's decision for him/herself.

Exactly right! It is wrong for someone who does not believe in standards any longer to condemn and or criticize someone who still holds them....

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

CC1,
I never said that I considering leaving because you are Admin. (lol) What I said was, "Now, if I have, somehow, broken a Board rule by criticizing a said Owner, Admin or Moderator, then you are free to ban me. It would not hurt my feelings."

Do I think you can Administer fairly from your perspective? I'm not sure you do on the standards issue, since you asked. There is a difference in laying out your opinion and making it ALWAYS come across as taunting, critical and condescending. That is my impression of your words when you speak about the things you don't like about the UPC.

I haven't seen Renda ever do these things. She shares her opinion and tries to see both sides of the issue, for each person individually. I can respect that. I know she doesn't agree with said, "standards", but she doesn't use her words to make the ones carrying that said "standard" as ignorant.

As to your question on the Conservatives having the capacity to serve fairly - I don't think either side is more favored. I believe we should be compelled to state our opinions on any issue without ridiculing the other.

My best friend, who attends church with me, worships with me, is also used in the gifts and does not keep standards. She respects me and I respect her. We don't argue about these things. We both realize that we must EACH make a decision for how we feel we need to present ourselves to God. How we feel it is best for us. How we feel we are being lead. It should be that way for everyone on this Forum.

Pressing- Onry,

I am glad I misread your post and you were not referring to leaving. Howeve I am still at a loss to understand why you question if I can admin fairly because I have strong views and post them.

It sounds to me like you are saying that anyone who discusses standards in a way you don't approve of can't fairly admin.

I have been very surprised and disappointed that this is your opinion but it is what it is. The first time you have evidence that I have not carried out my admin duties in a fair and responsible way I will step down. Other than that I am not going to be run off because someone is offended at my views.

Despite our differences of opinion I always felt there was a lot of mutual respect between us but obviously things have beeen eating at your craw for some time and you have decided to unload on me and in a manner I think is unfair.

It is one thing to dislike my posts, etc but an entire other thing to question my integrity as an admin. I don't mean this from a rules standpoint either I mean from the standpoint of how long you have been with me on these forums and the many times I have attempted to be a peacemaker when things got rough.

I had a feeling this would happen though. That all of those, conservatives included, who always talked about how good of an admin I would be would turn on me if it ever actually happened. Prophecy fulfilled.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by CC1

Pressing- Onry,

I am glad I misread your post and you were not referring to leaving. Howeve I am still at a loss to understand why you question if I can admin fairly because I have strong views and post them.

It sounds to me like you are saying that anyone who discusses standards in a way you don't approve of can't fairly admin.

I have been very surprised and disappointed that this is your opinion but it is what it is. The first time you have evidence that I have not carried out my admin duties in a fair and responsible way I will step down. Other than that I am not going to be run off because someone is offended at my views.

Despite our differences of opinion I always felt there was a lot of mutual respect between us but obviously things have beeen eating at your craw for some time and you have decided to unload on me and in a manner I think is unfair.

It is one thing to dislike my posts, etc but an entire other thing to question my integrity as an admin. I don't mean this from a rules standpoint either I mean from the standpoint of how long you have been with me on these forums and the many times I have attempted to be a peacemaker when things got rough.

I had a feeling this would happen though. That all of those, conservatives included, who always talked about how good of an admin I would be would turn on me if it ever actually happened. Prophecy fulfilled.

I must say to see this side of you has given me a new found respect for you.

Brother, it is not your different views it is the way some wish to charactorize our views. You can disagree and discuss without telling someone that what they believe is "stupid" "an embarrasment to God", "a sacred cow", etc.etc.

I just left a thread that you started asking "Where have all the cons gone"
On that thread Bro. Coonskinner said it perfectly

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I am finding that I am weary of spending signifigant portions of time seeing things unspeakably dear to me mocked and scoffed at.

and I have noticed that he still is not here.

As I have said, it is not the views I am at odds with, we can discuss opinions and beliefs, but there is no need to insult someone or their beliefs. We should all be above that, admin or not.

[Felicity]

CC1......

I haven't been posting for a while but I came out of "reader" mode to encourage you a bit for what it's worth so here goes:

• Admins have always enjoyed the privilege of stating their opinions on whatever topic came up for discussion. There's no rule against that far as I know. MOW, for example who is also an admin, would be considered "liberal" on the lib to con scale but he posts and expresses his viewpoints which certainly don't fit with the conservative viewpoint.
  
  
• Here's one who hasn't turned on you. I always felt you'd be a good admin. Still feel that way regardless of the fact we wouldn't agree on everything, but it's hard to find 2 people who do. In fact I've always felt you'd make a great ambassador. LOL.
  
  
• You've been consistent in your views and opinions and have shared them consistently since the beginning of the time I've been posting with you on FCF. You've not changed at all.
  
  
• Consistently Consistent One <-----> CC1. See?
  
  
• If you make a decision whether or not to admin a forum based on whether someone disagrees with you or not you won't last long so don't take it all too much to heart, bro.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by CC1

Pressing- Onry,

CCUno,
I'm speaking to you as a man and not Admin in this post.

I am glad I misread your post and you were not referring to leaving. Howeve I am still at a loss to understand why you question if I can admin fairly because I have strong views and post them.

Okay, you didn't get it.

It sounds to me like you are saying that anyone who discusses standards in a way you don't approve of can't fairly admin.

That is not what I was saying.

I have been very surprised and disappointed that this is your opinion but it is what it is. The first time you have evidence that I have not carried out my admin duties in a fair and responsible way I will step down. Other than that I am not going to be run off because someone is offended at my views.

I am not trying to run you off. (lol) I haven't been offended. I just was more angry than anything. (lol)

Despite our differences of opinion I always felt there was a lot of mutual respect between us but obviously things have beeen eating at your craw for some time and you have decided to unload on me and in a manner I think is unfair.

I respect you, CC1. I love you like I do everyone else I've been posting with for so long. How could I not love you? Let me count the ways...... (lol)

YES, things have been eating my craw since the first time you talked about the stringy haired women on AFF. I would forgive you and then you would do it again and I had to start all over again. (lol)

What I would do is picture walking into Southside and eating sausage (you) and pork steaks (me) and then I thought - I could like him, I'm sure. (lol)

It is one thing to dislike my posts, etc but an entire other thing to question my integrity as an admin. I don't mean this from a rules standpoint either I mean from the standpoint of how long you have been with me on these forums and the many times I have attempted to be a peacemaker when things got rough.

Integrity goes a lot deeper, IMO, than posting words of your opinion. I can't say that I questioned your integrity, just your choice of words. It's like you weren't really thinking that there are some women that don't want to cut their hair, dye their hair, could care less about jewelry and don't like to wear pants, so some of the standards are a non-issue.

Some of us have been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and threw it away. There are some of us that those things DO NOT work for us anymore. We don't like feeling pressured to pick those things up again. Things that felt like chains of acceptance to the world around our neck. You may not understand that. I've lived on both sides of the fence for the same amount of time in my life. I don't want the side I came from.

When I see our women praying, crying and seeking God with all their hearts - you make me angry when you call them - stringy haired women.

I don't have words enough to convey how I feel. It's too large. Now, I will agree with you that stupid things have been said and stupid things have been enforced, but I've seen stupid things in other denominations.

When I left the Catholic Church I attended the Baptist Church. The singles program just needed some liquor and then we would be in a bar. They got together played Elvis and other secular music. Me coming from a bar found that a little strange. I thought you left such music behind. Music that effected you in certain ways. Perhaps it was just me and something God didn't want for me. There are things I can't do or I will go backward. I could elaborate on that, but I won't. A dog returning to it's vomit.

I had a feeling this would happen though. That all of those, conservatives included, who always talked about how good of an admin I would be would turn on me if it ever actually happened. Prophecy fulfilled.

CC1, you are a great person. For the most part I like you. I'm just saying it isn't right of anyone to rag the appearance of the women. You mentioned once that they had no natural beauty and needed some enhancement. How is that your right, as a man, to pressure women in that way? We have enough pressure without men making us feel that we can't be accepted unless we do some "work".

It's like running through a chorus line to see who is accepted. How does that make a woman feel? I say find who pleases you and leave the others alone. God will find someone to love each and every women. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If God led me to this organization when I cried out that I needed Him, why are you asking me to leave? I can't leave. I have to follow Him wherever He goes and wherever He takes me. He hasn't opened another door in 22 years, I kinda took that as a hint.

Don't think I haven't gone through a time of testing. I certainly have, but I looked around and met people who didn't have anything better to offer me. I looked around and didn't see another path that was stronger and so I decided to stay where I was. I think that's how many in the UPC view things. If you have something better, give it to me. Many don't see it in their locality, IMO.

I do see some mistakes. One would be Deut 22:5, which has nothing to do with pants. "wear" in that passage is a very strong definition and has been overlooked as a basic meaning. It is not basic and is never used again in the entire OT. I attribute that to not sufficient study.

When I was a new convert the Lord showed me strongly how important it was that I would study on my own. The first thing he showed me was "touch not thine anointed". He showed me that it meant every saint of God.

Like the Catholic Church I have seen the same teaching - follow the leader and don't question. I've me pastor's wives who would say, "Well, I don't know, you'll have to ask my husband." I was astonished by that. I have seen some things changing and I attribute that to God building His church. He isn't going to leave a hungry heart in the dark.

Anyway, again, I think you are a great person, with great wit, good stories. I've just been angry at you from time to time as an Apostolic woman. I usually forgive you, though.

Does any of this make any sense to you?

[Felicity]

There are stringy-haired apostolic women. I saw some at the mall last week and was thinking .... "Goodness! They could help themselves a little at least by fixing their hair"..... and then I thought .... "perhaps they don't know how".

And the fact is ..... there are stringy haired women in general. Looking bad doesn't belong only to apostolic women. You know that if you get out much.

Truth is, there are beautiful apostolic women who are stylish and take care of themselves just as there are those who are outside of the apostolic church who are and do.

That's pretty consistent from what I've seen.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Scotty,
You are right - it is not something being slammed down the throat any longer.

God will have a church. He is building His church. Much has changed since I've come this way 22 years ago. I would prefer the church to evolve into what God want us to be, what He expects us to be. Each person must follow their heart. We need to respect each person's decision for him/herself.

And this post should sum it up..........I've read thru the entire thread, and I've been in places where CC1's perception has been reality, and I've been in places where it was far from the true situation. I absolutely do NOT agree with CC's assertion that it's nearly 100% of UPC pastors who harp on standards, sorry CC. However, I do agree that it happens more than it should.

And, I totally understand Scotty's point, and I believe that Scotty has said numerous times that God deals with each person individually, and he respects that, and I respect Scotty for feeling that way.

Bottom line - not all liberals are liberated, and not all conservatives are bound. Many people follow standards because they truly beleive them, and many people have left "standards" because God has truly liberated them.

In the mix, you have conservatives who are conservative but don't know why, and you have liberals who are bitter at the UPC.

Bottom line folks, PO said it, we must all respect each other and pray for each other, and stop with the broad brushing!

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

And this post should sum it up..........I've read thru the entire thread, and I've been in places where CC1's perception has been reality, and I've been in places where it was far from the true situation. I absolutely do NOT agree with CC's assertion that it's nearly 100% of UPC pastors who harp on standards, sorry CC. However, I do agree that it happens more than it should.

And, I totally understand Scotty's point, and I believe that Scotty has said numerous times that God deals with each person individually, and he respects that, and I respect Scotty for feeling that way.

Bottom line - not all liberals are liberated, and not all conservatives are bound. Many people follow standards because they truly beleive them, and many people have left "standards" because God has truly liberated them.

In the mix, you have conservatives who are conservative but don't know why, and you have liberals who are bitter at the UPC.

Bottom line folks, PO said it, we must all respect each other and pray for each other, and stop with the broad brushing!

And there you have it, the voice of reason.

This is what I was trying to say earlier on, but didn't convey nearly as well as you sir.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by CC1

Pressing- Onry,

I am glad I misread your post and you were not referring to leaving. Howeve I am still at a loss to understand why you question if I can admin fairly because I have strong views and post them.

It sounds to me like you are saying that anyone who discusses standards in a way you don't approve of can't fairly admin.

I have been very surprised and disappointed that this is your opinion but it is what it is. The first time you have evidence that I have not carried out my admin duties in a fair and responsible way I will step down. Other than that I am not going to be run off because someone is offended at my views.

Despite our differences of opinion I always felt there was a lot of mutual respect between us but obviously things have beeen eating at your craw for some time and you have decided to unload on me and in a manner I think is unfair.

It is one thing to dislike my posts, etc but an entire other thing to question my integrity as an admin. I don't mean this from a rules standpoint either I mean from the standpoint of how long you have been with me on these forums and the many times I have attempted to be a peacemaker when things got rough.

I had a feeling this would happen though. That all of those, conservatives included, who always talked about how good of an admin I would be would turn on me if it ever actually happened. Prophecy fulfilled.

CC1, you wanna know what your problem is? You actually think that you can insult people's beliefs, belittle their convictions, and still stay friends with them.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

And this post should sum it up..........I've read thru the entire thread, and I've been in places where CC1's perception has been reality, and I've been in places where it was far from the true situation. I absolutely do NOT agree with CC's assertion that it's nearly 100% of UPC pastors who harp on standards, sorry CC. However, I do agree that it happens more than it should.

And, I totally understand Scotty's point, and I believe that Scotty has said numerous times that God deals with each person individually, and he respects that, and I respect Scotty for feeling that way.

Bottom line - not all liberals are liberated, and not all conservatives are bound. Many people follow standards because they truly believe them, and many people have left "standards" because God has truly liberated them.

In the mix, you have conservatives who are conservative but don't know why, and you have liberals who are bitter at the UPC.

Bottom line folks, PO said it, we must all respect each other and pray for each other, and stop with the broad brushing!

Thank you, Michael. Somehow I knew you could put it in the best words. All of what you said is very good, the highlighted is the best.

Oh, and I corrected your spelling of "believe", just 'cause it's fun to catch you making a typo.