quite the conversation guys, i would like to say happy easter, and also just point out one thing, i dont care what you have been thru in your life there is no excuse for saying the garbabe that obamas pastor said, under any circumstances, my honest opinion, that goes for anybody, no matter who they are, dt
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
This is all very interesting. I have listened to Obama explain his relationship with Pastor Wright. He has condemned the statements that have been made, while at the same time acknowledging the very important impact this man's ministry over several years has had on shaping his life. I get the impression that some of you would think more highly of Obama if he had totally denounced the man rather than his statements and thus shown disloyalty to someone who has had a profound positive impact upon thousands of lives in the Chicago area where he has ministered.
I certainly would not want anyone to judge my 35 years of ministry by a few statements I made when I was quite angry at the UPC, although I'm sure there probably are some who do just that.
How many have heard preachers make extreme statements that they found to be bigoted and offensive, yet did not leave their church or the organization they represented?
"Haley earned a Pulitzer Prize special award in 1977 for Roots, and the television miniseries garnered many awards, including nine Emmys and a Peabody. Haley's fame was marred, however, by charges of plagiarism. After one trial, in which he admitted that large passages of Roots were copied from The African by Harold Courlander, Haley was permitted to settle out-of-court for $650,000. Haley claimed that the appropriation of Courlander's passages had been unintentional. In 1988, Margaret Walker also sued Haley, claiming that Roots violated the copyright for her novel Jubilee. That case was dismissed by the court.
Additionally, the veracity of those aspects of the story which Haley claimed to be true has also been challenged. Although Haley acknowledged the novel was primarily a work of fiction, he did claim that his actual ancestor was Kunta Kinte, an African taken from the village of Juffure in what is now The Gambia. According to Haley, Kunta Kinte was sold into slavery where he was given the name Toby and, while in the service of a slavemaster named John Waller, went on to have a daughter named Kizzy, Haley's great-great-great grandmother. Haley also claimed to have identified the specific slave ship and its specific voyage that transported Kunta Kinte from Africa to North America in 1767.
However, noted genealogist Elizabeth Shown Mills and the African-Americanist historian Gary B. Mills revisited Haley's research and concluded that his claims were not true. According to the Millses, the slave named Toby who was owned by John Waller could be definitively shown to have been in North America as early as 1762. They further said that Toby died years prior to the supposed date of birth of Kizzy. There have also been suggestions that the griot in Juffure, who, during Haley's visit there, confirmed the tale of the disappearance of Kunta Kinte, had been coached to relate such a story.
Although a friend of Haley's, Harvard University professor Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr., one of general editors the Norton Anthology of African-American Literature, has acknowledged the doubts about Haley's claims, saying, "Most of us feel it's highly unlikely that Alex actually found the village whence his ancestors sprang. Roots is a work of the imagination rather than strict historical scholarship. It was an important event because it captured everyone's imagination."
__________________ Smiles & Blessings.... ~Felicity Welsh~ (surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
See, that is your problem. in 1980, you moved to the armpit of America.
in 1991, when I walked of the pier where the USS Charleston was berthed, I swore to myself, if I was ever in North Carolina and needed to get to Washington DC, I would either swim or drive around Virginia! All because of Norfolk.
what a nasty place!
In 1979 the Navy moved us from Japan and we lived in Jacksonville Fla. I was in the 5th and 6th grades.
The school was about 1/2 white and 1/2 black and we had the coolest bus driver ever.
We rode in a brand new bus with a Fm stereo system that had speakers in the front and rear of the bus.
We jammed out to R & B and Funk , The bus driver she was Black.
It was good times..
But when the Navy moved us to Norfolk; the mood was totally different.....I for the first time was afraid.
The kids were meaner and the black students scared me.
quite the conversation guys, i would like to say happy easter, and also just point out one thing, i dont care what you have been thru in your life there is no excuse for saying the garbabe that obamas pastor said, under any circumstances, my honest opinion, that goes for anybody, no matter who they are, dt
What you have said in this post is THE BOTTOM LINE.
It is insulting to Black Americans to somehow think they don't have the intellect to NOT say outrageous things like that.
Someone else brought up the blood line of Christ and I gave this rabbit trail a path through this thread.
The human blood line of our Savior was not racially "pure". I believe this was done intentionally by the Almighty God so that in the 21st century, when someone begins to think along the lines of, "interracial marrying is sinful", they can look to their Savior and realize their attitude is sinful.
While I haven't seen any evidence to support that claim, I like how you put it into perspective if He weren't racially pure.
But even if He was, I don't believe that interracial marrying is sinful. If it were, we'd see it in scripture, considering there were many interracial marriages that took place.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Hey brother, there are many blacks, including myself, that have a distrust of the American govt, at a certain level. Honestly, it is not too far-fetched to believe that the CIA brought cocaine into the ghettos, INITIALLY (or else how did they get there?)
But there comes a time when the pursuit of civility and peace has to be more important than the past. OK, the CIA brought drugs in, but it still was another black man that hastened its spread.
It's not too far-fetched for me to believe that the U.S. govt had a hand in MLK's assassination.
But it was 2 black men who pulled their triggers on Malcolm X.
The reality is, truly, there is enough blame to pass around to EVERYONE.
Jeremiah Wright's pain, my Dad's pain, even some of my older cousin's pain is real, their anger is justified. It is important to realize that their anger is justified.
But if they never addressed the anger and pain in a positive way, they would have never been a positive contribution to our society.
It is important to realize that the pain and anger, which is the result of many generations, will not go away in one or two generations. Neither will the effects of what caused the pain and anger in the first place.
Wright's expression of pain and bitterness is his American right-- but to do so in the way he chose does very little to help the situation of the uneducated and unaccomplished younger blacks who may have heard his sermon
Sadly, the art of converting "the pain" to "the positive" has been lost by some blacks younger than me. It's troubling to me, should be troubling to all Americans, because, in the end, it affects all Americans.
Obama's comments add to the pursuit of justice, civility and peace-- I am convinced that this is the pursuit of the average American, red, yellow, black and white.
Good post. We can be angry, but using that anger in a positive way gets things done, and we won't have anything bite us in the behind later on.
And it's not only blacks that distrust the American government. There are white people who have left the US to live in other countries because of Bush in the WH.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Here's something I was talking about with my wife on this subject last night. I have a good friend who is black and I asked him a few questions about what it is like to be black and I just listened. In the beginning of our conversation I asked him when the last time he felt discriminated against. He said he hadn't felt any institutionalized discrimination in a long time, but the last time he was reminded that he was black was when he went shopping. He told me to watch people in the stores at the cash register. According to him on average if a white person is working as cashier they will personally hand any change right into the hands of another white person. But in his experience more times than not the white cashier will politely lay the change on the counter and gently slide it to a black customer. He admits that he doesn't see this as being a conscious slight...but he says he sometimes feels like saying, "Hand me my money, my hand's not dirty!"
Rather it's real or if one wishes to argue that it's perceived, you'd be amazed at how different the everyday black experience vs. our white experience in our country.
Chris, it's funny that you will excuse Wright for being a product of his society, but you won't allow that woman cashier the same excuse. I mean, maybe she was an older woman who was brought up in the civil rights movement too, and was taught certain things about blacks that she continues holding on to. Why not give her an excuse for her prejudice??
Not to minimize your story above, but if that's what discrimination is, then I, too, have been discriminated against.
I can't tell you the countless times that I have been waited on by a black person, usually women, who look at me like I'm the dirt of the earth. I've had them totally ignore me, throw money at me, and be snide. Oh, I'm sure it had something to do with my being white because when the black people were in their line, they laughed and joked and....well, you get the picture.
Am I injured? No. Instead, I felt pity for those people. I felt pity that for whatever reason they decided to belittle me because I'm white.
Did I go out and get angry? No. Did I speak about it to my friends? No, with the exception of those who might have been with me, but even then, it wasn't a big deal.
I've gotten speeding tickets by black cops but let go with a warning by white cops. Did I make that into a racial issue? No. Could I have? Certainly, but that would be stupid, especially since I truly was speeding!!
Your friend shouldn't feel so much discriminated against as feeling pity for white people who refuse to let issues go.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
My Mom's family is from West Virginia! That is where I trace my 1800's roots to! Some of them are still in Bluefield, but we trace our ancestry back to Lovern, WV.
Ah....West Virginia. 1 million people, 15 last names......
I'm sure you both are blood related!!! LOL!
BTW, you might be related to me too. My mom's parents are both from WV but in the southern parts.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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