Deuteronomy 15:11
For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
In every society there will be those who are chronically poor. This may be due to disability, psychological/emotional issues, abandonment, being elderly and needing care, and yes…laziness. In the ancient East all in the nation were entitled to basic survival. This was to preserve the nation and the culture. This is why laws like gleaning laws and the third year’s poor tithe are mentioned in the Bible. Anthropological researchers have found that such measures were common I ancient agricultural societies, especially in the Middle East. It was the duty of the entire society to provide the social safety net needed to ensure Social Justice. The book of Amos is an extensive rebuke for the nation’s failure to fulfill it’s obligation to the most needy in their society.
I’m sure that there were some who gleaned the fields who may have been capable of doing work of their own. However, the Bible doesn’t appear to address them. Paul does address MEN who are able to work who don’t. Generally the classes that were entitled to Social Justice were the poor (those who's work didn't provide enough to live by), needy (disabled), fatherless (abandoned mother’s and children), widows (elderly), and strangers (immigrants). All were entitled to glean…oh…and also the Levite. The Levite and the religious classes were also entitled to glean because they were not allowed to own land of their own. This is why Jesus, an able bodied man, gleaned the corn fields with his disciples when accused by the Pharisees for eating with unwashed hands. So there have always been requirements for assistance. America would do well to consider the Biblical requirements of social justice in distribution of welfare.
Welfare, or Social Justice, is commented on throughout the Bible as my reference above presents.
God bless.
You didn't really answer POs question though. PO did not ask if it is commented on through out the bible. PO asked about the difference
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Deuteronomy 15:11
For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
In every society there will be those who are chronically poor. This may be due to disability, psychological/emotional issues, abandonment, being elderly and needing care, and yes…laziness. In the ancient East all in the nation were entitled to basic survival. This was to preserve the nation and the culture. This is why laws like gleaning laws and the third year’s poor tithe are mentioned in the Bible. Anthropological researchers have found that such measures were common I ancient agricultural societies, especially in the Middle East. It was the duty of the entire society to provide the social safety net needed to ensure Social Justice. The book of Amos is an extensive rebuke for the nation’s failure to fulfill it’s obligation to the most needy in their society.
I’m sure that there were some who gleaned the fields who may have been capable of doing work of their own. However, the Bible doesn’t appear to address them. Paul does address MEN who are able to work who don’t. Generally the classes that were entitled to Social Justice were the poor (those who's work didn't provide enough to live by), needy (disabled), fatherless (abandoned mother’s and children), widows (elderly), and strangers (immigrants). All were entitled to glean…oh…and also the Levite. The Levite and the religious classes were also entitled to glean because they were not allowed to own land of their own. This is why Jesus, an able bodied man, gleaned the corn fields with his disciples when accused by the Pharisees for eating with unwashed hands. So there have always been requirements for assistance. America would do well to consider the Biblical requirements of social justice in distribution of welfare.
Welfare, or Social Justice, is commented on throughout the Bible as my reference above presents.
God bless.
CH,
You hit the issue that I was talking about - laziness.
Quote:
Paul does address MEN who are able to work who don’t.
I Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
Another point that can be taken against Wright is the continual "white racism" speeches. That does include more than Wright. It it making the younger blacks, which I have heard say, "Why do I need an education? The white man owns everything anyway." This country needs hard workers. All of this other stupidity is getting old.
I don't believe God judges individual nations anymore like some thing of as in the bible. The entire world does NOT need a God to judge them to make bad things happen. Bad things will happen without God causing them because Adam and Eve sinned and because the heart of man is woefully corrupt.
America will fall because it's leaders are corrupt and power hungry and Americans are greedy and immoral. Same thing happened to Rome. We don't need to be judged in order for bad stuff to happen. We don't need God to make someone our enemy...no matter how virtuous we can be we will have nations that hate us because they are diametrically opposites of us.
HOWEVER....God can and will refrain from blessing us due to our lack of faith as a nation, our immorality and the high corruption.
When Jesus could not do many miracles in certain areas due to their lack of faith, that was not judgement
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Choesn, do you believe that the inital post in this thread gives correct context to Reverand Wrights comments?
The video certainly framed his "chickens coming home to roost" statement more in context than what FOX News had shown on their network!
In fact, the same all-American flag-wavers who called loudest for war against Iraq are now denouncing Wright as a hate-monger and a traitor, and attacking Michelle Obama for saying that only recently has she had reason to feel proud of her country. They insist that anyone who is not permanently proud of the United States, whose patriotism isn't plastered on his or her face like the frozen smile of a beauty queen waving from a Fourth of July float, is beyond the pale. Never mind that the glorious results of their debased version of patriotism -- 4,000 American troops dead, a wrecked Iraq, and a greatly strengthened terrorist enemy -- are plain for all to see.
You wouldn't expect the Republican Party, Fox News, Bill Kristol or the readers of FreeRepublic to issue any mea culpas -- they don't acknowledge that they've done anything wrong. But the mainstream media's pious tut-tutting over the Wright affair shows that it, too, has learned nothing from its disgraceful post 9/11 performance. The worst excesses of media groveling -- the flag pins, the instructions not to run anti-U.S. stories -- may be history, but the timorous mind-set remains the same.
Its reaction to Wright shows that the American establishment still cowers before the patriotic idol. It cited the "God ************ America" sermon again and again, like the Spanish Inquisition ritually intoning the words of some heretic before drawing and quartering him. It didn't matter that Wright uttered his curse in the context of demanding that America live up to its ideals -- all that mattered were those three talismanic words. Anyone this angry, our media gatekeepers solemnly informed us, must be rejected. The only question was whether Obama was irrevocably tainted by his association with the evildoer. Wright's "chickens coming home to roost" line about 9/11 produced the same unthinking, reflexive reaction. How dare this apostate suggest that America might not be blameless, that its actions could have had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks? Rev. Jeremiah Wright isn't the problem
The hysteria over Obama's former pastor's attacks on America shows we're still in thrall to knee-jerk patriotism.
By Gary Kamiya
__________________
Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)
"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
Helping poor people does not mean forcing them to remain dependant on the government.
Most Christians want to help poor people, but we don't want to be enablers to their bad behaviors.
Just last night as I was at church this street lady (homeless though she says she has a place) came in. I see her often...usually she wants a roll of toilet paper.
She asks if I have a blanket and I say I think I have one in my car. I start to walk out and notice she is not following me......she tried to steal my screw driver I had just bought. I confronted her and she gave it back. She does that often...tries to take stuff. She asks for money and I said is a dollar enough? she says yes. I'd love to help her....but I am not going to enable her.
Lastly though....Christopher...of all those scriptures about giving how many are about giving to your brothers in the faith as opposed to sinners?
I think it is great to give to others in need, but it is very sad when we are ignorant of our own brothers in our midst that are struggling while many of the rest of us are driving escalades....and remember those struggling are often tithe payers.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Helping poor people does not mean forcing them to remain dependant on the government.
Do you have any solutions for those depending on social services? What should we say to Jesus when he ask why we refused to help those in need?
Matthew 25
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
__________________
Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)
"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
The video certainly framed his "chickens coming home to roost" statement more in context than what FOX News had shown on their network!
Good. I am glad we agree.
In my opinion, based on viewing the good Doctors terse comments in context, I believe Jeremiah Wright was out of bounds, anti-American and fully racist.
I further believe the full context of the comments is proof enough that Barak Obama has shown a severe lack of judgment in sitting under that kind of spiritual tutelage. In fact it shows such a lack of judgment, that I cannot understand why anyone would want such a fellow to be president.
Beyond this lack of judgment, there is a clear indication that Barak Obama has given tacit approval of the Liberation Theology taught by Pastor Wright. Any person who gives twenty years of their life, extensive offerings, and has allowed their children to be trained in this dogma is qualified to be President of the United States of America.
I am glad we got this settled.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Helping poor people does not mean forcing them to remain dependant on the government.
Ditto!!!
When I worked on President Reagan's first campaign in Mississippi back in 1980 our state campaign co-chariman was a very intelligent black man who wrote an article in which he accused the Federal government of taking Black folks from the "Cotton Plantation" to the "Federal Plantation".
Most Christians want to help poor people, but we don't want to be enablers to their bad behaviors.
Just last night as I was at church this street lady (homeless though she says she has a place) came in. I see her often...usually she wants a roll of toilet paper.
She asks if I have a blanket and I say I think I have one in my car. I start to walk out and notice she is not following me......she tried to steal my screw driver I had just bought. I confronted her and she gave it back. She does that often...tries to take stuff. She asks for money and I said is a dollar enough? she says yes. I'd love to help her....but I am not going to enable her.
Lastly though....Christopher...of all those scriptures about giving how many are about giving to your brothers in the faith as opposed to sinners?
I think it is great to give to others in need, but it is very sad when we are ignorant of our own brothers in our midst that are struggling while many of the rest of us are driving escalades....and remember those struggling are often tithe payers.
Good post, Prax. I read an article some years ago on the homeless. They studied the various facilities and found out that many of the homeless don't want to be dependent on the shelter. They want to be on the streets.
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