FOX Lies!! Barack Obama Pastor Wright

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I have to ask. Chris is this a moral equivalence arguemnt? does that excuse Obama from associating with a self exposed racisit?

But in regards to McCain. No. It's not moral equivalence.

- First, I don't see Jeremiah as a racist. Focused on issues of race yes, racist no.

- Second, Obama's life was touched by this church and its overall ministry. I believe it’s fairly safe to assume that Obama, being a younger black man, doesn’t hold the same views as his pastor Jeremiah. Think about black churches overall here. Most likely older black pastors in most black churches are going to have views and opinions that reflect the era and discrimination they grew up with, but most likely younger generations attending aren’t going to be as radical on those views because they’ve benefited from the advancements made under the leadership of these older black leaders. Pastor Jeremiah’s statements reveal a lot about what he feels in his heart…but that is his heart…not Obama’s.

In my opinion it’s a lot like a hardened soldier who doesn’t behave like the war is over and doesn’t trust the enemy entirely yet, who hasn’t let go of the past, and is still hurting from perceived or perhaps real injustices.

My first pastor who died in his 80’s had some racist feelings. He was dead set against mixed marriages and refused to daughter work a black church. I didn’t abandon him. I just disagreed with him where I felt he was wrong. Saying that Obama is racist because his pastor is racist would be like calling me a racist because my pastor was racist. I think that’s flawed logic. We’re dealing with men who are products of their era. The war is over…but they still sleep with their weapon within reach and they haven’t forgotten the battlefield. For many of them, like Jeremiah Wright, the battle’s still raging in their minds. All that they see is colored by the memory of the war. And what they say reflects that. While we may think their words are out of date…they are forever relevant because we must never forget that war and tolerate the spirit that prevailed in our country during that era.

-Thirdly, McCain’s racial remarks are made by the candidate himself therefore it does reveal his heart. I assure you that we don’t want a showdown over which candidate is the most racist. And honestly when the General Election gets here…that’s exactly what this issue with Jeremiah Wright is going to do. That will be very bad for McCain and bad for Obama. But even more importantly…it will be bad for our country. Both McCain and Wright are warriors. Each fought in a different war and holds views reflecting their experiences. The one thing we can know for sure is that we don’t want to relive the 60’s and 70’s.

We do well to admit that to our generation’s ears Jeremiah’s statements are difficult to understand…but we must remember that he’s a man of his era…just like McCain.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Chris, the above is a terribley condesending comment. It suggests that African Americans are incapable of rising above the challenge.

we are supposed to be the knuckle dragging neandrethals. you are supposed to be enlightened.


African Americans CAN rise above what ever they are faced with because they live in a land where MERIT is the only CLASS.

Ummm...I just expressed how dehumanization may have played a part in the current issue of black on black violence, self degredation, and the issues they face. Any people CAN overcome and rise above the challenge. The fact is...too many of them haven't yet. What do we do to help them?

Some might see people as, "knuckle dragging neandrethals" but I don't. Please don't mischaracterize my post man.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

It is something to consider though.

Really? Why would I or any smart critical thinker want to consider something so stupid?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Really? Why would I or any smart critical thinker want to consider something so stupid?

Because it would be "stupid" to disregard the social impact of 400 years of subjugation, slavery, and in humane treatment ranging from lynching and rape to experiemental medical research on human beings conducted as recently as the 1970's.

I have a son...if I beat him and tell him he's worthless...he's going to act like it. It's also going to effect the way he values others. And then he will most probably beat his kid and say the same. And the problem is perpetuated.

This is hardly "stupid".

[DividedThigh]

or maybe your son will grow up become a conserative and put you out of your misery, lol, just kidding, dt

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

or maybe your son will grow up become a conserative and put you out of your misery, lol, just kidding, dt

That's my point.

[DividedThigh]

lol

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Because it would be "stupid" to disregard the social impact of 400 years of subjugation, slavery, and in humane treatment ranging from lynching and rape to experiemental medical research on human beings conducted as recently as the 1970's.

I have a son...if I beat him and tell him he's worthless...he's going to act like it. It's also going to effect the way he values others. And then he will most probably beat his kid and say the same. And the problem is perpetuated.

This is hardly "stupid".

It's stupid because there is no evedence to support your claim, thus the reason I asked for supported sources and not some "thought".

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

It's stupid because there is no evedence to support your claim, thus the reason I asked for supported sources and not some "thought".

No evidence?

We have generations of families in which abuses began in one generation and are perpetuated in the lives of their children, their children’s children, and so on. That abuse may be verbal, physical, sexual, emotional, etc. But it’s perpetuated. Parents who were abused and dehumanized, who have no self worth, all too often abuse and destroy the self worth of their children. The abused becomes the abuser and they try to bury the pain with drugs and alcohol. These abuses, degradation of self worth, and addictions are perpetuated in each generation that follows.

The abuse starts with the crack of a master’s whip 600 years ago and find its way to the face of a young black boy being backhanded by his drunken father until his nose is broken. The abuse began in darkened rooms of the slave quarters where no one heard the cries as this young slave boy as he was abused in the most heinous way by a perverted owner….and it ends with a man molesting a young girl in a back alley of Chicago. The abuse began with separating men and women, wives and husbands, parents and children, brothers and sisters into separate quarters and fields of labor…and ends with young fathers abandoning their families because no one for generations has ever learned and passed down what it means to be…a father. Our people robbed, beat, raped, murdered, dissolved family units, and dehumanized untold numbers of their people for 400 years and the degradations of hate, lynching, discrimination, and even human medical experiments, continued through the 1960’s and 70’s. Our people destroyed them and we stand here with big eyes blinking like bewildered little children, wondering why THEY have a problem with crime, addiction, and abuse in their communities? Bro…violence and abuse breeds violence and abuse for generations. This is why such abuse is so horrendous in the eyes of God. Remember…only one generation of their people has experienced true equality under the law.

Some things are so basic a human understanding that they go without saying…that is unless…someone is totally blind to it…or worse…refuses to see it.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

No evidence?

We have generations of families in which abuses began in one generation and are perpetuated in the lives of their children, their children’s children, and so on. That abuse may be verbal, physical, sexual, emotional, etc. But it’s perpetuated. Parents who were abused and dehumanized, who have no self worth, all too often abuse and destroy the self worth of their children. The abused becomes the abuser and they try to bury the pain with drugs and alcohol. These abuses, degradation of self worth, and addictions are perpetuated in each generation that follows.

The abuse starts with the crack of a master’s whip 600 years ago and find its way to the face of a young black boy being backhanded by his drunken father until his nose is broken. The abuse began in darkened rooms of the slave quarters where no one heard the cries as this young slave boy as he was abused in the most heinous way by a perverted owner….and it ends with a man molesting a young girl in a back alley of Chicago. The abuse began with separating men and women, wives and husbands, parents and children, brothers and sisters into separate quarters and fields of labor…and ends with young fathers abandoning their families because no one for generations has ever learned and passed down what it means to be…a father. Our people robbed, beat, raped, murdered, dissolved family units, and dehumanized untold numbers of their people for 400 years and the degradations of hate, lynching, discrimination, and even human medical experiments, continued through the 1960’s and 70’s. Our people destroyed them and we stand here with big eyes blinking like bewildered little children, wondering why THEY have a problem with crime, addiction, and abuse in their communities? Bro…violence and abuse breeds violence and abuse for generations. This is why such abuse is so horrendous in the eyes of God. Remember…only one generation of their people has experienced true equality under the law.

Some things are so basic a human understanding that they go without saying…that is unless…someone is totally blind to it…or worse…refuses to see it.

Sources please, until then all I see is blah, blah, blah.