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  #21  
Old 04-28-2008, 01:25 PM
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Re: Chronic Backsliders?

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Originally Posted by My Own Eyes View Post
Interesting thread.


......


I like a theory I heard once, that we are not a set type of "soil", but that we are all at the same time. Each time the Lord speaks to us, it is a seed that is sown, and we in our free will respond to it different ways. Sometimes we accept it and are the good soil. Sometimes it get chokes out by thorns before it can really flourish. Or it falls on the path and is stolen by the enemy.



I am sure that there are many who have been hurt, and they leave and never come back. But I must point out, that there are many like me. Who are hurt, but who several times came back for more.

Why did I roller coaster? I think each story is probably a little difference. I think the crux of it was being born again in a very unhealthy church. When I say that, please understand it is not my bitter cynical opinion of a church that hurt me. 75% of the people that attended that church have left. Many have gone on to other Apostolic churches, some for non-apostolic churches, and some for no church at all. So please understand its not hurt, or sour grapes talking. The church was very bad.

But ultimately it wasn't the church or the pastor, or my being hurt or mistreated that caused my problems. It was simply that the foundation of what I was taught about Jesus and all spiritual matters, was horribly twisted.

Have you ever talked to someone who was raised in an abusive home? Often they will talk about how when they were young, they didn't understand that it wasn't normal. At some point they began to question somethings, but imprinting can be very difficult to overcome, and often they battle it their entire lives.

For me, the picture that I had of God, he was harsh and exacting, all justice and very little love (unless you were "good enough" to some how earn it). So I would go through stages where I worked and worked and worked and worked, I did everything I could, to somehow be found worthy.

But no one can be perfect, so eventually I would burn out. I would think, "what's the point? I'll never be good enough. Why should I even try? I might as well just give up....the end result will be the same"

And so I would give up, for awhile. But eventually I would start thinking that maybe I just hadn't tried hard enough the last time. THis time I would be able to do it. But of course, I wouldn't be able to, and so the cycle would repeat itself.

For a long time I believed that all my inadequacies were to blame, that eventually turned to blaming God for demanding more than I could ever hope to do. Until one day I sat on my bed and said "God, either you are nothing at all like what I have come to believe, in which case I really need to find out who you really are. Or, you are every horrible thing that I have come to believe, in which case I want nothing more to do with you."

That is when I got off the roller coaster. (Though to be fair, I didn't leave the church for 4 or 5 months after that, and ultimately my leaving had little to do with any of the hurt or damage done by the church, as by that time I was in a realitively healthy apostolic church. )
thanks for taking time to provide this testimony. It is a worthwhile point of reference concerning what this journey has been for a fellow brother or sister in the body of Christ.
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  #22  
Old 04-28-2008, 01:31 PM
AmazingGrace AmazingGrace is offline
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Re: Chronic Backsliders?

Ok Mich... I know we havent gotten along the best and I have been very vocal about certain things which has obviously bothered you and I want to put that aside... And I have a couple of questions I want to ask with this post in mind...

1. Do you personally feel that if you had been born (spiritually) into a different church that you might have a different outlook on things as they are now? Do you feel that you might not be so hurt thus not have the bitterness which is allowed I understand.. built up and therefore be more willing to visit other OP churches?

2. What things would have made your walk with God different at that time and possibly made you consider staying around as in the things that the ministry/pastoral staff could have done differently?
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  #23  
Old 04-28-2008, 02:30 PM
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Re: Chronic Backsliders?

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Originally Posted by AmazingGrace View Post
Ok Mich... I know we havent gotten along the best and I have been very vocal about certain things which has obviously bothered you and I want to put that aside... And I have a couple of questions I want to ask with this post in mind...

1. Do you personally feel that if you had been born (spiritually) into a different church that you might have a different outlook on things as they are now? Do you feel that you might not be so hurt thus not have the bitterness which is allowed I understand.. built up and therefore be more willing to visit other OP churches?

2. What things would have made your walk with God different at that time and possibly made you consider staying around as in the things that the ministry/pastoral staff could have done differently?
1. It's so hard to say, but in a good way. I think that accepting the past for what it is, and learning to do so without regret has helped me immeasurably. So it's hard for me to play "What if" simply because I lived in that place for so long. I found it really hard to get past it, and it made it very easy to cast blame, and wallow in the whole unfairness of it all.

I spent most of the past year so angry that I was so messed up, and I couldn't get past that. It's only been recently that I have been able to kick myself into moving on. So now hopefully I can look at it all through a little clearer lens.

Would things have been different, if I had started out at a different church? A healthy church? I would like to say yes. I would like to think that my spiritual walk would have been entirely different, but if I am going to be painfully honest with you, I don't know if that's the case. Something in me responded to the idea that I had to earn God's approval. Whether it was my perfectionist tendencies, or the fact that I had an Earthly Father that was impossible to please....maybe the message would still have ended up distorted even without outside influence.

But a bigger part of me believes that in a healthy environment, those tendecies would have been dealt with much sooner (and on a much smaller scale). And so I don't think things would have gotten as bad as they did.

I did actually end up leaving that chuch for a different church, which honestly was not much of an improvement. Then, when I moved to Georgia, I ended up in a 3rd church. It was a thousands times better than either of the first 2 churches, and I had no problems in that church the 3 years that I attended it, and in fact was content to attend even while disagreeing with some of the teachings (with no pressure, or anyone giving me a hard time).

Ultimately, I decided to leave it (and the OP all-together), not because of any of the hurt that I had gone through, but because I had reached a point where I realized I now disagreed with more than I agreed with.

This is often shadowed by the fact that once I left, I allowed myself to actually deal with and face my spiritual issues, which was not at all pretty! But in fact most of my anger and bitterness came months after I left and not before.

It was actually just recently reached a point where I felt ready to return to a church environment. I have only been a couple times, but have enjoyed it. (It is an non-denom. no-pentecostal, pretty progressive church, but what I felt I could handle)

2. This is probably going to sound unbelievable coming from me, but I can only think of one thing negative about my last OP pastor (which is that he didn't handle my leaving the way that i would have hoped, but nobody's perfect!).

In fact, I was constantly telling him, that I was messed up way before I met him, and that I didn't expect him to fix me! All in all, I think he handled me pretty well. I would actually recommended his church to anyone looking for an apostolic church. Does that shock anyone??

Because I am desperate to tell you something useful, LOL, I will tell you what were the most frustrating things for me when I was really struggling, and how I wish it had been handled instead.

#1 - Being made to feel like I was the problem. (There is rarely a situation where one person is 100% at fault, and often it seemed to me that others refused to believe that it wasn't just me being difficult)

#2 - Being made to feel like my feelings aren't valid. (whether or not I should be feeling a particular way, I was. I often felt like I was having to fight for the right to feel a certain way. Sometimes we have to walk a fine line between catering to someone's irrational emotions, and totally invalidating legitimate ones)

#3 - People treating me like I was "broken" and needed to be "fixed" (This is a tough one, especially when it came to men, because men tend to be fixers.)

#4 - You are not allowed to struggle, you have to get it all right now!

So I guess what it comes down to, is that it seems the most important thing to me was being accepted for who & where I was. (I could add more, but this is already longer than most people will be willing to read! )
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  #24  
Old 04-28-2008, 03:22 PM
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Re: Chronic Backsliders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Maybe you have some you know of like this. They get onfire for God, come to church, pray, read the word, get involved with the work of God to minister to others and reach lost souls. Then they grow cold and stop going to church, stop praying, stop reading the word....stop everything but go back to their former selves. Then they make a go at it again and start coming back to church etc etc...

Are these people destined to be like this? Are they just a certain kind of ground Jesus refered to that the seed falls on?

If so is there anyway to change the kind of ground you are?
Maybe if there were more folks on fire for God.

They would not slip back into mistakes.

Problem is most folks treat church like something they just do in life.

Like go to work or school.

They may get more done when they are on fire for God,

Then most do living in the same dry well experience day after day.
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  #25  
Old 04-28-2008, 03:45 PM
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AmericanAngel AmericanAngel is offline
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Re: Chronic Backsliders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Maybe you have some you know of like this. They get onfire for God, come to church, pray, read the word, get involved with the work of God to minister to others and reach lost souls. Then they grow cold and stop going to church, stop praying, stop reading the word....stop everything but go back to their former selves. Then they make a go at it again and start coming back to church etc etc...

Are these people destined to be like this? Are they just a certain kind of ground Jesus refered to that the seed falls on?

If so is there anyway to change the kind of ground you are?
In the begining...LOL....when I was a newborn to God, I began to stuggle...I literally asked God to transplant me to fertile ground...literally in my mind visualized God doing this for me. I really felt that I was the ground full of thorns.
MOE, the fact that you are here speaks volumes...in fact, you minister to me. When it comes down to where the rubber meets the road, WE are responsible for OUR OWN salvation. You were looking out for yourself and your sanity (if I understand your story correctly). To me, that's not being backsliden.
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Rom.8:38,39-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


I AM the VOICE of REASON and SANITY around here!

I am now on FB and on the AFF's on FB!
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  #26  
Old 04-28-2008, 06:06 PM
AmazingGrace AmazingGrace is offline
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Re: Chronic Backsliders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Own Eyes View Post
1. It's so hard to say, but in a good way. I think that accepting the past for what it is, and learning to do so without regret has helped me immeasurably. So it's hard for me to play "What if" simply because I lived in that place for so long. I found it really hard to get past it, and it made it very easy to cast blame, and wallow in the whole unfairness of it all.

I spent most of the past year so angry that I was so messed up, and I couldn't get past that. It's only been recently that I have been able to kick myself into moving on. So now hopefully I can look at it all through a little clearer lens.

Would things have been different, if I had started out at a different church? A healthy church? I would like to say yes. I would like to think that my spiritual walk would have been entirely different, but if I am going to be painfully honest with you, I don't know if that's the case. Something in me responded to the idea that I had to earn God's approval. Whether it was my perfectionist tendencies, or the fact that I had an Earthly Father that was impossible to please....maybe the message would still have ended up distorted even without outside influence.

But a bigger part of me believes that in a healthy environment, those tendecies would have been dealt with much sooner (and on a much smaller scale). And so I don't think things would have gotten as bad as they did.

I did actually end up leaving that chuch for a different church, which honestly was not much of an improvement. Then, when I moved to Georgia, I ended up in a 3rd church. It was a thousands times better than either of the first 2 churches, and I had no problems in that church the 3 years that I attended it, and in fact was content to attend even while disagreeing with some of the teachings (with no pressure, or anyone giving me a hard time).

Ultimately, I decided to leave it (and the OP all-together), not because of any of the hurt that I had gone through, but because I had reached a point where I realized I now disagreed with more than I agreed with.

This is often shadowed by the fact that once I left, I allowed myself to actually deal with and face my spiritual issues, which was not at all pretty! But in fact most of my anger and bitterness came months after I left and not before.

It was actually just recently reached a point where I felt ready to return to a church environment. I have only been a couple times, but have enjoyed it. (It is an non-denom. no-pentecostal, pretty progressive church, but what I felt I could handle)

2. This is probably going to sound unbelievable coming from me, but I can only think of one thing negative about my last OP pastor (which is that he didn't handle my leaving the way that i would have hoped, but nobody's perfect!).

In fact, I was constantly telling him, that I was messed up way before I met him, and that I didn't expect him to fix me! All in all, I think he handled me pretty well. I would actually recommended his church to anyone looking for an apostolic church. Does that shock anyone??

Because I am desperate to tell you something useful, LOL, I will tell you what were the most frustrating things for me when I was really struggling, and how I wish it had been handled instead.

#1 - Being made to feel like I was the problem. (There is rarely a situation where one person is 100% at fault, and often it seemed to me that others refused to believe that it wasn't just me being difficult)

#2 - Being made to feel like my feelings aren't valid. (whether or not I should be feeling a particular way, I was. I often felt like I was having to fight for the right to feel a certain way. Sometimes we have to walk a fine line between catering to someone's irrational emotions, and totally invalidating legitimate ones)

#3 - People treating me like I was "broken" and needed to be "fixed" (This is a tough one, especially when it came to men, because men tend to be fixers.)

#4 - You are not allowed to struggle, you have to get it all right now!

So I guess what it comes down to, is that it seems the most important thing to me was being accepted for who & where I was. (I could add more, but this is already longer than most people will be willing to read! )
Thank you for this response. I was very curious on these things and you answered them very well. I will respond more in like later. I have to help the kids and hubby outside right now but will be back later... Thanks again and wonderful thoughts there.. things that yes I know are hard to go back and rehash but you have done well with what you were delt. Life for you isnt all about church as we all know you deal with the struggle of the disease your husband has daily also. Its not an easy road but I do believe you have handled it with great stride I do love ya sis.. we may not always agree but I do love you!
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  #27  
Old 04-29-2008, 12:52 PM
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Re: Chronic Backsliders?

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Originally Posted by AmazingGrace View Post
Thank you for this response. I was very curious on these things and you answered them very well. I will respond more in like later. I have to help the kids and hubby outside right now but will be back later... Thanks again and wonderful thoughts there.. things that yes I know are hard to go back and rehash but you have done well with what you were delt. Life for you isnt all about church as we all know you deal with the struggle of the disease your husband has daily also. Its not an easy road but I do believe you have handled it with great stride I do love ya sis.. we may not always agree but I do love you!
Well, I just got a chance to see this, now that the board seems to be restored

I appreciated reading this today, as I was having a rough day husband-wise. If it's true that what ever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, then on the inside I am totally one of those huge bulked up female body builders!
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and all His works must be contemplated with respect."

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