Jesus had awesome people skills. He knew just when and where to connect with people. He did not put himself on a pedistal awaiting the masses to cater to his every need...rather, He sought out those who had ministry and empowered them, and He sought out the needy and ministered to them.
He never rejected anyone who came to Him with a need... "For I have come to serve, not to be served."
The leader of a church or any church program must learn the concept of servitude if they want to please God and be effective in ministry. You cannot serve people if your not willing to make the first effort in connecting with them.
And what about the responsibility of the saints in the pews? Jesus never rejected anyone who came to Him but this sister has never once gone to her pastor (according to her). Instead, she insists on this attitude that it's up to the pastor to come to her, as if to say that she is over her pastor.
I don't preach it, but I believe there is some merit to the idea. Why would you want to put yourself through the hardship of an untenable situation?
Life is too short to be spent in a constant state of disagreement.
I don't want any saint in my church to be unhappy with my leadership. That unhappiness can be a fast-spreading disease. I would much rather that saint find a place where they can be in total agreement with the pastor and his vision.
If, after conversation, we can find a place of agreement - Praise God! But I have no intention of changing any methods because of a saint that has a personal problem with my style of leadership.
If the method fits within the framework of biblical teaching - why change it to please someone else? At that point, who is leading, the pastor, or the saint?
Again, I understand that there are people who cause problems and that isn't an ideal situation and it may even get to the point where you have to tell those folks to attend elsewhere. I believe there is Bible for that as well.
But that's not what I'm talking about. Does your wife and children agree with everything you say and do? Even after conversation, do they continue to disagree sometimes?
Since I believe there are times that they do, do you expect them to leave your home and find another if they can't live there and agree with your every word and action? Do you expect them to change because you don't agree with them?
The church is my family. And just like with our earthly families, we don't always agree, but we can get along even with our disagreements. The suggestion that I should leave really bothers me.
If pastors only had churches where all the saints agreed with every decision and every vision they had, there would never be any churches larger than about ten people.
I don't expect my pastor to change because of me, but I'm not the only one having a problem here. If you impose things on your leadership, you should listen to their concerns and not brush them off because you are the pastor and you aren't changing just because they don't agree. I don't believe you'd run your marriage this way, so why run a church this way?
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And what about the responsibility of the saints in the pews? Jesus never rejected anyone who came to Him but this sister has never once gone to her pastor (according to her). Instead, she insists on this attitude that it's up to the pastor to come to her, as if to say that she is over her pastor.
Chan, get off it already. This thread isn't even about this, but it's just the minute issue you want to pick over.
Read the first post again and find out what this thread is really about.
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Yes, I know that's what you said in your initial post. My responses still apply.
Again, let's discuss what the thread is really about, not one sentence out of many that has nothing to do with even the thread title. You are making this a lot bigger than what it is by pulling it out of things that I feel are more important to discuss.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Again, I understand that there are people who cause problems and that isn't an ideal situation and it may even get to the point where you have to tell those folks to attend elsewhere. I believe there is Bible for that as well.
But that's not what I'm talking about. Does your wife and children agree with everything you say and do? Even after conversation, do they continue to disagree sometimes?
Since I believe there are times that they do, do you expect them to leave your home and find another if they can't live there and agree with your every word and action? Do you expect them to change because you don't agree with them?
The church is my family. And just like with our earthly families, we don't always agree, but we can get along even with our disagreements. The suggestion that I should leave really bothers me.
If pastors only had churches where all the saints agreed with every decision and every vision they had, there would never be any churches larger than about ten people.
I don't expect my pastor to change because of me, but I'm not the only one having a problem here. If you impose things on your leadership, you should listen to their concerns and not brush them off because you are the pastor and you aren't changing just because they don't agree. I don't believe you'd run your marriage this way, so why run a church this way?
Sister, I consider you a friend, so please receive this in the spirit of friendship.
If my wife and I lived in a constant state of disagreement, our marriage would be meaningless, and a sham. This situation in no way compares to marriage. We are Americans, and free to worship wherever we choose to.
Why stay in a disagreeable situation? If the pastor is biblically correct, you should conform to his leadership, or move.
In regards to my kids, they are not allowed to continually disagree. They are under 18, and their opinion is not equal to mine. There are some things that will happen/not happen in my home simply because it is my will. As long as I pay the bills, that is how it is gonna be. I do impose my will on them in a loving, fatherly, biblical way. That is called spiritual leadership in the home.
A saint is not a pastor's kid. The situation is not comparable.
Sister, I consider you a friend, so please receive this in the spirit of friendship.
If my wife and I lived in a constant state of disagreement, our marriage would be meaningless, and a sham. This situation in no way compares to marriage. We are Americans, and free to worship wherever we choose to.
Why stay in a disagreeable situation? If the pastor is biblically correct, you should conform to his leadership, or move.
In regards to my kids, they are not allowed to continually disagree. They are under 18, and their opinion is not equal to mine. There are some things that will happen/not happen in my home simply because it is my will. As long as I pay the bills, that is how it is gonna be. I do impose my will on them in a loving, fatherly, biblical way. That is called spiritual leadership in the home.
A saint is not a pastor's kid. The situation is not comparable.
This is the response I was expecting....LOL!
I agree with you. Really, I do. But there is a difference in disagreeing and living in a constant state of disagreement.
For instance, I'm sure there have been decisions that you have made that your wife disagreed with you about, yet you made the decision anyway. It's nothing she has to live with today, but if you were to ask her about it, she might still disagree with you. See what I mean? She's not living in a state of disagreement, but she might not ever agree that you made the right decision.
I don't believe you would tell her that she should agree with you in your leadership no matter what or she should move, right? I don't know her, but I have a feeling who'd be moving into the doghouse if that statement were ever made!
Just like it is in the section you are a part of, there aren't many churches to choose from should someone decide to move. This is the problem I have, or I would do just that. When I lived in southern Illinois where there was a UPC on every corner, it would be no big deal.
There are two UPC churches near me besides the one I attend. One is about 20 miles, the other is 40. I don't care for the one 20 miles away but really like the one 40 miles away. With gas prices as they are, and the fact that when I'm in school, I travel 100 miles a day, that creates a hardship.
I wasn't fair to bring kids into my post as I also rule my home as I see fit in love and according to the Bible. They may not agree, but that's too bad! LOL!
However, my mother and I disagree on some issues, but we continue being mother and daughter and are welcome in each other's homes. We don't live in a state of disagreement, but there are times when I let her know how wrong she is!
I consider you a friend as well, and I don't see your posts as any other way but friendly. If I'm ever in your area again, I hope to visit your church and hear you preach...again. I promise that if you say something I don't agree with, I won't stand up and shout it out..haha. I won't even make a face.
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