Hell Bound? Says who???

[Light]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Hello Light...love you folks.

Praise the Lord !!!
We had a wonderful time in Brazil with you. The stay in your home was worth millions. You,Br. Alvear and family and the people treated us like kings. I forgot to get the welcome sign that I wanted so bad. Maybe the next time I wont get sick. The doctor said my problem was dehydration.
I know you have been busy but when you get the time remember to get us the receipt of that wonderful chicken soup.
Love you all.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Hall if a sincere Catholic young man or girl joins the priesthood or nuns will they be saved?
A sincere Mormon? Jehovah Witness?

Elder Hall?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Hall if a sincere Catholic young man or girl joins the priesthood or nuns will they be saved?
A sincere Mormon? Jehovah Witness?

I don't see how they could be saved. However, again, I leave the pronouncement of "judgment" to God. Same with Tyndale. I don't see how exactly Tyndale could be saved...however, I leave the judgment to God. God alone knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. God alone knows how much understanding they have had available to them. I don't see how anyone can be saved outside of Acts 2:38, but I leave the final judgment to God. This is why I repeatedly tell my Evangelical friends that unless one obeys the Gospel as it was preached in Acts 2 and applies it as Peter taught in Acts 2:38 they are gambling with their eternal soul.

The final judgment of the soul I leave to God.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Light

I am not Br. Hall but if what he has written on this thread is his truthful belief he will have no choice but to answer yes.

Light, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. It is my responsibility to preach the gospel and to warn of Hell. It isn't my place to say who finally makes it and who doesn't. It's not my place to say who can and who can't.

There are many sincere believers that I know. I don't see how they can make it according to my understanding. But I leave that final judgment to God.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Light, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. It is my responsibility to preach the gospel and to warn of Hell. It isn't my place to say who finally makes it and who doesn't. It's not my place to say who can and who can't.

There are many sincere believers that I know. I don't see how they can make it according to my understanding. But I leave that final judgment to God.

This is post is the point of this thread. We know what we believe, however, it is presumptious of us to declare who is saved and who is not, based on OUR understanding of the scriptures.

The Pharisees were very devout religious men, they had the knowledge of Jesus coming and how He would come, yet they missed Him. We have the Words and understanding as we know it, but that doesn't make us any less prone to mistakes as the Pharisees were.

We should only allow God to put folks in hell.

JMO

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Esther

This is post is the point of this thread. We know what we believe, however, it is presumptious of us to declare who is saved and who is not, based on OUR understanding of the scriptures.

The Pharisees were very devout religious men, they had the knowledge of Jesus coming and how He would come, yet they missed Him. We have the Words and understanding as we know it, but that doesn't make us any less prone to mistakes as the Pharisees were.

We should only allow God to put folks in hell.

JMO

Amen. I can see admitting that we don't know how a non-Apostolic made it. But notice...in saying this we leave the judgment to God and acknowledge our limitations.

Some here actually appear to be happy that souls are lost...as long as they are "right"! Some make condemning non-Apostolic souls an apparent benchmark for being "Apostolic". I assure you that I'm Apostolic...but I must also remind you that I'm not God.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Amen. I can see admitting that we don't know how a non-Apostolic made it. But notice...in saying this we leave the judgment to God and acknowledge our limitations.

Some here actually appear to be happy that souls are lost...as long as they are "right"! Some make condemning non-Apostolic souls an apparent benchmark for being "Apostolic". I assure you that I'm Apostolic...but I must also remind you that I'm not God.

Amen!

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Light, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. It is my responsibility to preach the gospel and to warn of Hell. It isn't my place to say who finally makes it and who doesn't. It's not my place to say who can and who can't.

There are many sincere believers that I know. I don't see how they can make it according to my understanding. But I leave that final judgment to God.

I think we are talking on a discussion board with other saints, and not out in the public officially sending folks to hell. But I think it is foolish to think that someone is judging a sinner if they, by the unction of the holy ghost, tell that person they are lost and in need of a savior. Warning someone of their future sometimes is necessary for them to change direction.

Now as to those that have already died (i.e. Tyndale), how can anyone that believes Acts 2:38 is the only means of salvation not believe that someone that has not obeyed would be lost. IF there is any doubt in your mind as to what it takes to be saved, then you really do not believe what you say is "the only way". Its not judging, or sending someone to hell. You did not send anyone, nor can you ever send anyone, to hell. The fact is that those that do not obey Gods call go to hell. Again, we are on a discussion board with those that are of like faith (for the most part), so our conversation here would not be the same as it would be towards those that lose a loved one. But when someone asks if Tyndale was saved or lost, all I can do is answer according to scripture, lest someone interpret my silence to say that there is another way to be saved.

[Sister Alvear]

One of the kids just walked into my office singing, One,one, one, one way to God....
Everytime I hear a Brazilian sing that I am thankful once again He called me to be a missionary.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think we are talking on a discussion board with other saints, and not out in the public officially sending folks to hell. But I think it is foolish to think that someone is judging a sinner if they, by the unction of the holy ghost, tell that person they are lost and in need of a savior. Warning someone of their future sometimes is necessary for them to change direction.

StMatthew,

We are on a public discussion board that the lost, backsliders, and non-Apostolic Christians can easily read. Some may have been witnessed to by an Apostolic and just be surfing the internet to see what we’re about and land here. So as long as it’s public…I think we should have caution, patience, and wisdom when discussing salvation and categorizing people as “hell bound” and “not hell bound”.

I have no issue with following the unction of the Holy Ghost. I’ll say things under the unction of the Holy Ghost that I’d never say of my own accord. There was a man named Dave at Echoing Valley Residential Center that I worked with. Dave went to a Church of God that taught that tongues were of the devil. He shared what his pastor taught on the issue and while there was obvious disagreement I remained cordial praying that God open his eyes. Dave was also our bus driver. One day I was assigned to go on the bus with him and assist with dropping residents off at Goodwill Industries, United Cerebral Palsy, and Calumet Center. Well, on the way back it was just us in the bus and he made a mocking remark about the gift of the Holy Ghost. Suddenly God came over me and I told him he was a two fold child of Hell who had spoken against and resisted the Holy Ghost. Bro…he looked at me like I had gone crazy. I found out after he had been let go that his sister had married a Pentecostal and our friend Dave had a lot of un-repented bitterness toward Pentecostals. Dave had heard the truth of the Holy Ghost and had been rejecting it and rejecting it. Apparently I was one of God’s many attempts to get through to him. But when God tells you to speak bro…I firmly believe in saying exactly what he tells us to speak.

I firmly believe there is a difference between resistance and ignorance. I’d never condemn or judge an ignorant person who just didn’t know or understand. However, I fear for those who do know and reject the truth. There’s a big difference in my book.

Now as to those that have already died (i.e. Tyndale), how can anyone that believes Acts 2:38 is the only means of salvation not believe that someone that has not obeyed would be lost. IF there is any doubt in your mind as to what it takes to be saved, then you really do not believe what you say is "the only way".

I see your logic. But a lot is being assumed there. If I absolutely believed that Acts 2:38 was the only way and I believed that there was absolutely no way I could be mistaken certainly I’d agree. But I make stakes daily. There are things I used to believe and teach and now I have to admit…I was mistaken. I firmly don’t believe I’m mistaken about Acts 2:38, but in all honesty…what if I’m wrong? What if the interpretation I’ve taken is too extreme leaving God little room to operate outside of the box I believe is “the only way”? In fact, Acts 2:38 isn’t “the only way”….Jesus is the way. All things are predicated upon Him and nothing else.

Here’s something to consider…only two things are commanded in Acts 2:38. Peter commands his listeners to repent and be baptized in Jesus name. He then “promises” them the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost isn’t something we’re commanded to do…it’s a promise we are promised to receive if we obey.

So now let’s consider someone who has repented of sin and been water baptized. They may not have had the right words spoken over them…but they sought to obey with all the knowledge and options they had available. Now let’s consider that they have had deep experiences with the Holy Ghost in prayer that they don’t understand. Do we condemn them? Is it possible that God can forgive them for trying their best to obey? I think it’s possible. We all have children that have done their best to please us. I remember when I was younger I tried to make my mother a cake for mother’s day. Brother…it was a mess. I had all the right ingredients…I just mixed them wrong. I even applied the icing wrong and tore it up somewhat. My mother looked at me and cried, bore me up, and hugged me. I did my best.

Ok…Tyndale and many others had repentance, water baptism, and some deep unexplainable experiences in the Holy Ghost. They didn’t know it…but the words spoke over them might have been incorrect. What are the right words? Do we say, “In the name of Jesus Christ be baptized!” Do we say, “According to the profession of your faith I hereby baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.”, or do we say, “I baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins!”? What are the exact words needed? Is it the words that matter….or is the obedience exemplified by the believer as they seek to be associated with Christ’s burial that matters? Will God say, “Ha! Sorry Tyndale, you had no idea but the guy who baptized you didn’t say the right words! Oh, I know you had never heard of ‘Jesus name baptism’, but you know what…you should have known better. Now burn baby burn!” I just can’t see it. Now…do I instantly put Tyndale in Heaven? Nope. That’s going too far in the other direction. I just give it to God and trust that he knows how to judge who best obeyed Acts 2:38 according to their best ability and understanding.

Bro…I’ve made many mistakes in my life. I’ve had incorrect ideas and notions of what the Bible taught. I’m going to give that one to God bro. I trust him more than I trust me. I trust him more than I trust our Elders (whom I greatly respect). Did Jesus fulfill all righteousness and die in our place to make up the difference in areas where we sin, fail, or are mistaken? We serve a merciful God. That’s why I differ all judgment to Him, even though I believe my understanding of Acts 2:38 is the correct viewpoint. I would never tell someone outside of the Apostolic movement that they were going to Heaven without a doubt. I have always indicated that outside of obedience to God’s plan as expressed in Acts 2:38 one gambles with their soul…and the odds are against it. I give them room to breathe, consider the text, and consider their choices. I don’t believe in scare-ism Christianity. It only produces Christians who want fire insurance. I believe in warning of what could happen if they disobey…and I leave it in their hands from there. Their choice is their choice. And I leave God in control to convict, draw, and judge.

TO BE CONTINUED: