Charismatic Apostolic

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by pelathais

If your words are truly intended to be taken seriously, then you must sadly serve that terrible taskmaster, the ruler of this world who refuses to set his prisoners free. If this is the case, I would like to encourage you that you can be free.

If on the other hand, "you're jus' messin'" then I would like to exhort you to rise up and truly grapple with this topic.

There was a time in my life when I would "bind and fight the devil every day." The major result of that was that I would also have to use the church's carpet cleaner extensively after every service. No kidding... we had this big commercial quality rug sucker and every time we went for the "binding and loosing" stuff we would have vomit and other fluids that had to be cleaned up afterward. A lot of it sometimes.

The shamans of Central America trained their adherents well in the use of fear and torment. When we came against that with our own shamanistic techniques - well, ol' Brother Pelathais would have to spend a lot of time afterward dragging out the rug sucker.

How much better it is to work in the power of the Holy Ghost! People don't suffer as much and there's no messy clean up afterward. The Holy Spirit is a civilizing and educating factor, in addition to His many other wonderful attributes. People are free and in their right minds afterward and not shaking and trembling like they are still bound by fear.

Let the Bob Larsons of the world do the Ringling Bros. type of side shows and carnival. And let the real church of Jesus Christ live in victory.

So you don't cast devils out of people any more,you just let them stay in the poor lost people ? Believe me the Holy Ghost dont come into people with the devil still there.I have seen many foam when devils come out.My friend,you don't know what free is.

Mark 9:[17] And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
[18] And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
[19] He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
[20] And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Joelel

So you don't cast devils out of people any more,you just let them stay in the poor lost people ? Believe me the Holy Ghost dont come into people with the devil still there.I have seen many foam when devils come out.

Mark 9:[17] And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
[18] And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
[19] He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
[20] And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming

do you realize how it makes you look when you talk this way about fellow spirit filled believers? the people on this forum are almost all belivers, and many of us are mature. Just because we grew out of bad teaching doesn't mean we have to smile and bear it when we hear more of the same. In a open forum opinions can be fully expressed and articulated.

if a baby spits up on the floor i'll gladly break out a mop. and its not a age thing since i see your nearly twice my age. its about study, revelation and allowing the scripture to say exactly what its trying to say. its the kind of scripture twisting that fills hell with fresh new backsliders.

[Joie]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Oh girl friend dontcha know already, there aren't any. Besides you and I both have seen the move of the Holy Ghost in a church with all kinds of different hair lengths, make up, jewelry, skirt lengths, etc. And even with men there that had long hair. And it happened frequently. It is even happening here now in one of the Baptist churches. We have seen the shockamoo and also just the sweet, sweet spirit of worship move through a congregation. That is when it is joy unspeakable and full of glory, God's glory.

u r da best, girlllllllllllllllllfriend.... read that to my dear dh and we got a happy lololo. love yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..
__________________________________________________ ________________

It's not the cut hair and jewelry that stops the move of the Spirit; but it is the judgmentalism and legalism that rears its ugly head when those so called worldly items are worn. The jealous envy of the Ultra Con's is what stops the move of the Spirit. _.....James 3:16"For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work."

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Most certainly it does. The True anointing (not personal talents and abilities) will not flow is there is such sin in the church, not talking here about visitors either.

You have to be kidding...I thought you knew better than that!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Joelel

The scripture Is very clear about we are not to dress ourselves in anything that is expensive. If we are not to dress in expensive dress then we are not to own anything expensive. We are also not to own anything we don't need.

You must live in a cave and go on the internet from a library then. Let me ask you...how much is "expensive"? Who determines at what dollar amount something becomes expensive?

The bible say with food and raiment we are to be content.

So Joel...you don't have a house or a home or anyplace to live or transportation? All you have in your life is clothes and food? Do you even own a grocery cart?

In the bible using the word gold we understand that we are not to dress in expensive dress. A meek spirit don't wear or own expensive things.

please show me where the word expensive is and then show me where the bible tells you HOW much is expensive

Note here the scripture says gold and pearls or costly array. It don't say jewelry, although jewelry is extreme dressing and a lot is costly.We are to sell everything we don't have need of and give to the poor.

so we can have silver and platinum because that's not on the list? BTW the bible does NOT say sell all that you don't need and give it to the poor.

I wonder why people let their hair grow long and then turn around and interweave and knott it.Also they wear their expensive apparel.

knot...whose definition of expensive did you go by?

1 Peter 3:3: Whose adorning( Dressing) let it not be that outward adorning( Dressing) of plaiting the hair, (Interweaving and knotting of the hair) and of wearing of gold,(Expensive things) or of putting on of (expensive) apparel: But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

This shows your lack of bible STUDY. Plaiting here meant to weave the hair in extravagant displays with gold and pearls in it. The Roman women did this as sort of a prideful competition.

You really misunderstand Peters intent.

try a better translation and the context
1Pe 3:3 Let your beauty not be external — the braiding of hair and wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes —
1Pe 3:4 but the inner person of the heart, the lasting beauty of a gentle and tranquil spirit, which is precious in God's sight.
1Pe 3:5 For in the same way the holy women who hoped in God long ago adorned themselves by being subject to their husbands,

adorning does not mean dress
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

Peter is talking about the womans beauty (not men). That beauty should be the inward woman. And GOLD here does in fact refer to jewelry. In fact one form of jewelry was for young girls to wear gold coins as a necklace...it was her dowry.

BTW costly in 1tim is not expensive but EXTREMELY expensive.

Further more 1 Tim seems to be an admonition regarding church services
1Ti 2:8 So I want the men to pray in every place, lifting up holy hands without anger or dispute.
1Ti 2:9 Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing,
1Ti 2:10 but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God.
1Ti 2:11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness.

And Peter seems to be emphasizing Christian character in the woman, not dismissing outward appearences.

Acts2:44: And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45: And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need

Not they did not sell what they did not need. It says they sold their possessions according to their needs. Of course if you take that literaly as you are then you need to sell off all your stuff. Or course this was not a command Joel. They were NOT commanded to do that.

Acts4:32: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33: And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34: Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35: And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

So idealistic. Joel...can you give me a list of your possessions please? I might have a need. This was not a command to them or the church. They did that of their own free will

1 Tim.5: Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.6: But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7: For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.8: And having food and raiment let us be therewith content

I don't see anyone here that says gain is godliness...do you?

Math.6:19: Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:20: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

You missed the most important part here BUT..BUT.. BUT this is a hyperbole Joel. The bible is full of them. They teach a greater truth that only the truly spiritual and enlightened understand. Clearly you did not get it.

Joel, just curious but do you hate your parents and brothers and sisters?

Joel do you greet others with a kiss? The bible says to do that. Joel, the bible says to give of your possessions to everyone that asks...can you give a list of your possessions please and them the ones I want will you mail them to me?

1 Tim.6:17] Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;[18] That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;[19] Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life

1Ti 6:17 Command those who are rich in this world's goods not to be haughty or to set their hope on riches, which are uncertain, but on God who richly provides us with all things for our enjoyment.
1Ti 6:18 Tell them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, to be generous givers, sharing with others.

I think we ALL agree with that. But this does not say he has to be poor. It says he shold be generous givers and sharing with others. I agree....even us poor folks do that.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Joelel

So you don't cast devils out of people any more,you just let them stay in the poor lost people ? Believe me the Holy Ghost dont come into people with the devil still there.I have seen many foam when devils come out.My friend,you don't know what free is.

Mark 9:[17] And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
[18] And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
[19] He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
[20] And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming

He did not say he does not cast out devils anymore. It's not every day though one encounters a devil possessed person. Even in the bible this was not a daily routine.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

You have to be kidding...I thought you knew better than that!

When you look at it, it doesn't make any sense. If a visitor is there with short hair, then the spirit can still move. The spirit just won't move if a church member cuts their hair.

If it's a sin, it's a sin - no matter who is there or who has the short hair. So, to him if anyone has short hair in his service, he shouldn't expect the spirit to move.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Joelel

So you don't cast devils out of people any more,you just let them stay in the poor lost people ? Believe me the Holy Ghost dont come into people with the devil still there.I have seen many foam when devils come out.My friend,you don't know what free is.

Thank you, my friend. However, I am puzzled by how you got "So you don't cast devils out of people any more,you just let them stay in the poor lost people ?" from what I said.

What I said was in reaction to what I have seen practiced in Pentecostal circles as "binding and loosing." And, as I said, I used to follow the same behavior patterns. I then described this as "shamanistic" and lamented the effect such things had on "the poor lost people" who appeared to be just as lost when we were done with them as they were when they came into the service.

Instead, I have seen a more powerful approach. I find this to be much more effective and doesn't result in the torments that I used to witness. I do confess that that there are fewer people who are obviously suffering who will actually come forward and be freed. Far too many people seem to want to stay bound and under torment. In the past it seemed like we were often facilitating this as we just cycled through long lines of petitioners and reported total numbers of those who had been hustled along through our assembly line - without ever really helping more than one or two people every few years.

Now, I find greater numbers of people are truly being helped - but the "show" is much more low key and probably won't appeal to those in Pentrecostal circles who attend meetings just for the spectacle.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He did not say he does not cast out devils anymore. It's not every day though one encounters a devil possessed person. Even in the bible this was not a daily routine.

Thanks Prax.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by erikwebster

do you realize how it makes you look when you talk this way about fellow spirit filled believers? the people on this forum are almost all belivers, and many of us are mature. Just because we grew out of bad teaching doesn't mean we have to smile and bear it when we hear more of the same. In a open forum opinions can be fully expressed and articulated.

if a baby spits up on the floor i'll gladly break out a mop. and its not a age thing since i see your nearly twice my age. its about study, revelation and allowing the scripture to say exactly what its trying to say. its the kind of scripture twisting that fills hell with fresh new backsliders.

Believe me,people need to hear the truth.People need to understand that if their still living a life in sin they are of the devil,not the Holy Ghost.There are too many deceivers in the world taking people to a devils lake of fire (tribulation).

1John.3
[1] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
[11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another