Charismatic Apostolic

[mizpeh]

Once, Anthony Mangun made the mistake of preaching on Mark 16 in a local campmeeting. That got some people to see Mark 16 in an angle somewhat different from the pastor's and we lost a few families over it.

What was the "different angle" that caused families to leave your church?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Michael,I think where alot of people are not understanding us about perfection is, if we make every effort to live holy we are perfect at what ever state of perfection or growth we are in.The bottom line is though,most people don't make every effort because if they did they would be delievered from what ever sin they live in.

2 Peter 1:5: And beside this, giving all diligence, (MAKE EVERY EFFORT)add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;6: And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;7: And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8: For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9: But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence (MAKE EVERY EFFORT)to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall

Philp.4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things

1 John1:5: This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
2:10: He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him

Heb.13:15: By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name

This looks right to me Joel.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Does allowing hair cutting and jewelery affect the move of the holy spirit in a local congregation, your personal annointing or your personal relationship with God?

We had one of the most powerful services this past Wed. night - one of the best I've ever been in. The power of God swept in during one worship song and the people just cried out in travail for probably 30 minutes. Then we had gifts of the Spirit and just passionate praise that went on and on. Church lasted way longer than usual.

I probably had on a pair of pants - can't remember for sure, because it didn't matter. I'm sure I had on makeup and I'm just not a big jewelry person, but if I had on any, it was not a big deal. It sure didn't hinder the move of the Spirit and I'm the pastor's wife. God doesn't care what you're wearing as long as you're modest. What He does care about is that you are passionately pursuing Him.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We had one of the most powerful services this past Wed. night - one of the best I've ever been in. The power of God swept in during one worship song and the people just cried out in travail for probably 30 minutes. Then we had gifts of the Spirit and just passionate praise that went on and on. Church lasted way longer than usual.

I probably had on a pair of pants - can't remember for sure, because it didn't matter. I'm sure I had on makeup and I'm just not a big jewelry person, but if I had on any, it was not a big deal. It sure didn't hinder the move of the Spirit and I'm the pastor's wife. God doesn't care what you're wearing as long as you're modest. What He does care about is that you are passionately pursuing Him.

Sherri,

Thank-you for this awesome report. I am so glad that God functions outside our little boxes.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sherri,

Thank-you for this awesome report. I am so glad that God functions outside our little boxes.

Blessings, Rhoni

It took me a long time to see that. Years.....

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Sherri

It took me a long time to see that. Years.....

Me too.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Joel is perfect. Get together with him :-)

and by his admission ... only goes to church when he's preaching ...

Why you guys bother to counter this extreme doctrine held by Joey and Mikey is beyond me .... let them be.

[ShofarMan]

In the back of my mind I can hear Bro Caston mumbling something about


Jezebels

LOL

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Then I guess we are probably in agreement. It's just the term "Christian Perfectionism" comes with a lot of baggage. I have actually seen this preached and wielded as a club to beat people down and as a means of imposing, not godly conviction, but out and out despair into the lives of people.

As I said, I had a pastor for years who used to preach this as doctrine. Nothing at all came from the context that you and I cited - just "absolute perfection" and then he'd go on about how holy and "perfect" God is - and how that's how "perfect" we're supossed to be. I witnessed first hand, literally hundreds of people lose faith in the Apostolic doctrine over this. When I would try and approach the pastor about the effect his "messages" were having and the toll it was taking on the church- he would get defensive and angry about it.

He never once acknowledged the context of Matthew 5:48. Not once did he even offer any sort of "disclaimer" or fuller explanation about what "... perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" really meant. He thought of himself as being in this sort of "perfection" so why should he acknowledge any need on his part to learn?

Entire passages of the NT were forbidden to be preached or taught upon in the church. I could often get around this because I had some standing in the larger UPC fellowship - but if anyone else even brought something up that was verbotim; the axe would fall.

Once, Anthony Mangun made the mistake of preaching on Mark 16 in a local campmeeting. That got some people to see Mark 16 in an angle somewhat different from the pastor's and we lost a few families over it.

Just in the "context" department: though we came from a "PCI" background (or maybe, because we came from the PCI background) our pastor was one of the more "hardcore" and acerbic voices for the "3 stepper way" in Pentecost. Throughout all of his antics and ravings we never received one bit of support or aid from our UPC "brethren." They were all paralyzed by the "pastor is king" mentality - except that there were those who benefited from the insanity.

I once counted 22 members in another church's choir that were either won by me or won by someone that I had won. And that could have been "our" choir, blessing the services that my children and I attended. But no, just to live as Christians they had to go "somewhere else." I can't begin to describe the lifetime of heartache and frustration that this kind of condition caused me. And I was always the one with the "bad attitude?" Riiight. And now after all these years, and through absolutely no direct involvement from me- this pastor's "church" is down to himself and just one family member. Meanwhile the church my family now attends baptized and saw over 200 people get the Holy Ghost so far this year.

Seems like my "attitude" was the right one all along.

And thanks, Michael The Disciple for the clarification. I appreciate your words.

Maybe the problem was,he never told them how to be perfect ? Alot of people are fine untill they hear the life they must live,then when they hear they don't want to line up either.

Math.13:[18] Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.[19] When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
[20] But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;[21] Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
[22] He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.[23] But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Does allowing hair cutting and jewelery affect the move of the holy spirit in a local congregation, your personal annointing or your personal relationship with God?

It absolutely does!!! It increases it due to the freedom!