McCain renounces endorsements

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I would never vote for Obama. I sat the last Presidential election out. Unless something big happens and someone stands up strong against abortion and gay guess Ill set this one out too.

Michael, there are other issues. Look at their health care plans. You'll have to live with one of them and the plans submitted by McCain and Obama will bring a radical change in health care. For example one of them will take away the tax credits claimed by businesses for insuring their employees. The tax credits are then redistributed to individual employees and they are expected to purchase their own insurance and for most the entire cost is on them because without the tax credit businesses have no incentive to offer an employer contribution because it would be too expensive. If one is older or has pre-existing conditions the tax credits will not be enough to afford coverage at today's rates. That means one plan would increase the number of uninsured, not insure more Americans. The other plan would be a health insurance program reflecting a cooperative effort between government and private insurers to give all Americans the plan available to Congress. The plan will be subsidized for those who cannot afford it. The plan will follow you wherever you go and you still choose your own doctor. Employers would have the choice of keeping their tax credits and continue insuring their employees as they are now...or they could chose to not insure their employees and pay a tax to provide the government plan, whichever is cheapest, but all employers will be required to choose one system or the other, with the exception of those who qualify to be classified as a small business.

Look at their policies on Iraq.

Look at their policies on energy and the economy.

There are a LOT of very important things we need to address in the next four years that are VERY important. It's not all about gays and abortion.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

At this point I would say Mccain has lost my vote. Here he sits on the "Ellen" show with a lesbian and acts as if everythings fine. He thinks to sit down with Dictators is wrong because it gives them status. Well the same principal applies here in my book.

He just said to the Gays "I wish you all the happiness in the World". The context was she was going to marry her Lesbian lover. He has no judgment neither moral character. Its a shame. I was wanting to be able to vote for him.

Not only that he is busy tonight repudiating Preachers left and right. He will lose a lot of other believers votes by his actions tonight.

So are you refrainng from voting or casting it in with the elitist crowd? Vote against him for someone with no experience or qualifications who uses charisma to win votes?

To many Apostolic/Pentecostals will follow after charisma just because it looks good and is wrapped in a pretty package with a bow on top. They vote like their churches; lots of spirit, little truth. No not all groups or churches but from the way I hear many talking that seems to be the pattern.

Don't lose faith, keep up the fight. I know we are looking at voting for the lesser of two evils and neither one seems to be good but I still say we need to vote our convictions not our wallet or for the one who speaks the best or looks the best.

CHANGE IS NOT ALWAYS BEST. Depends on where the change leads us. The kind of change I see from the democratic party will not be a good change I am afraid. Would have to say I wish we had a good Libertarian running he or she might just be able to steal it from the others this year.

[Michael The Disciple]

So are you refrainng from voting or casting it in with the elitist crowd? Vote against him for someone with no experience or qualifications who uses charisma to win votes?

Not voting.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Michael, there are other issues. Look at their health care plans. You'll have to live with one of them and the plans submitted by McCain and Obama will bring a radical change in health care. For example one of them will take away the tax credits claimed by businesses for insuring their employees. The tax credits are then redistributed to individual employees and they are expected to purchase their own insurance and for most the entire cost is on them because without the tax credit businesses have no incentive to offer an employer contribution because it would be too expensive. If one is older or has pre-existing conditions the tax credits will not be enough to afford coverage at today's rates. That means one plan would increase the number of uninsured, not insure more Americans. The other plan would be a health insurance program reflecting a cooperative effort between government and private insurers to give all Americans the plan available to Congress. The plan will be subsidized for those who cannot afford it. The plan will follow you wherever you go and you still choose your own doctor. Employers would have the choice of keeping their tax credits and continue insuring their employees as they are now...or they could chose to not insure their employees and pay a tax to provide the government plan, whichever is cheapest, but all employers will be required to choose one system or the other, with the exception of those who qualify to be classified as a small business.

Look at their policies on Iraq.

Look at their policies on energy and the economy.

There are a LOT of very important things we need to address in the next four years that are VERY important. It's not all about gays and abortion.

I dont want to stand before Jesus Christ and confess I helped put a ruler over the nation who encourages the killing of babies and gives aid and comfort to sodomites. I dont believe he would like it.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I dont want to stand before Jesus Christ and confess I helped put a ruler over the nation who encourages the killing of babies and gives aid and comfort to sodomites. I dont believe he would like it.

Bro, the vast majority of Democrats don't encourage abortion accept in very difficult circumstances. The Democratic position is just an alignment with the SCOTUS ruling that limits government restriction on the procedure. The responsibility for abortion rests entirely on the women who choose them.

And you may not know this, but "Sodomites" were male temple prostitutes in the OT, not just the run of the mill "gay" person.

If you ignore other issues, you may essentially through your family under the bus when it comes to health care. And if that happens, you allowed gays and abortion to rob your family of something they may desperately need.

I don't hate gays more than I love my family.

[DividedThigh]

i will study the issues, say a prayer and vote my heart, along with my wife on election day, that is all i can do, dt

[AmericanAngel]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

i will study the issues, say a prayer and vote my heart, along with my wife on election day, that is all i can do, dt

I agree.



What I listened to is this video of Ellen and McCain wasn't McCain agreeing at all.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...vs-mccain.html

Comparied with how Dole answered some simular questions (which I personally didn't like how he said them, doesn't mean I don't agree with Dole), but McCain, (to me) answered Ellen's question, without hate or malice.

How we conduct ourselves and answer people is very important. It's like an on and off switch. Without love, we are just making noise, with love we are drawing all men (and women) to Him, by our charactor.
Ellen, herself was also respectful.
This is a biblical issue, not a political issues IMHO. I wanna know who can protect this country, and serve for my best intests aside the biblical issues.

The under current strength of a body of water (the church) is much stronger that all the waves atop (the world). What are we afraid of? In whom shall I fear?
If you don't vote, don't complain. I'm for McCain.

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by AmericanAngel

I agree.



What I listened to is this video of Ellen and McCain wasn't McCain agreeing at all.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...vs-mccain.html

Comparied with how Dole answered some simular questions (which I personally didn't like how he said them, doesn't mean I don't agree with Dole), but McCain, (to me) answered Ellen's question, without hate or malice.

How we conduct ourselves and answer people is very important. It's like an on and off switch. Without love, we are just making noise, with love we are drawing all men (and women) to Him, by our charactor.
Ellen, herself was also respectful.
This is a biblical issue, not a political issues IMHO. I wanna know who can protect this country, and serve for my best intests aside the biblical issues.

The under current strength of a body of water (the church) is much stronger that all the waves atop (the world). What are we afraid of? In whom shall I fear?
If you don't vote, don't complain. I'm for McCain.

i understand sis, that is the way we feel too, dt

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by AmericanAngel

I agree.



What I listened to is this video of Ellen and McCain wasn't McCain agreeing at all.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...vs-mccain.html

Comparied with how Dole answered some simular questions (which I personally didn't like how he said them, doesn't mean I don't agree with Dole), but McCain, (to me) answered Ellen's question, without hate or malice.

How we conduct ourselves and answer people is very important. It's like an on and off switch. Without love, we are just making noise, with love we are drawing all men (and women) to Him, by our charactor.
Ellen, herself was also respectful.
This is a biblical issue, not a political issues IMHO. I wanna know who can protect this country, and serve for my best intests aside the biblical issues.

The under current strength of a body of water (the church) is much stronger that all the waves atop (the world). What are we afraid of? In whom shall I fear?
If you don't vote, don't complain. I'm for McCain.

Ellen was by no means respectful of any position but her own. She was simply putting it in Mccains face that Gays were every bit as desrving of being married to each other as men and women. She did not mention anything about respecting Mccains position at all that I saw.

And yes we are to show them love. One should not assume because I have a strong stand on this that I am hating them. If Mccain had said he wished her well as a person that would have been fine. Unless I am mistaken tho he wished her and her partner happiness concerning their relationship. At least thats the way it came across to me.

He would sit and talk to her and speak nicities but would not sit and talk with our national adversaries? To me gay is more destructive to America than Iran.

And this is written below the video picture:

If everyone can muster the courage and integrity of Ellen DeGeneres, we will win the vote in California. And we will deserve to. This really is a challenge to the gay community and our families and friends: this is the fight of our generation. What have you done to make it happen

?

So yes its ELLEN who has courage and integrity! Mccain certainly came across as a whimp.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Not voting.

Coward.

Keep in mind folks, Party trumps person. Say it again and again until it saturates the mush in your skull.

All together now...

PARTY...TRUMPS....PERSON.