True Worshippers - Page 2

Baron1710 · #11 05-22-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

How about what I quoted from the article? What I commented is directed at that.

Jesus himself TAUGHT his disciples how to worship him. So I certainly believe that one must be correct in understanding his doctrine.

Jesus made it clear that our own imaginations are not the same as his commands and revelations.

8: This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matt. 15:8-9

His doctrine reveals his heart about matters. So to be in tune with his heart we must be changed and conformed to it. Apart from his own word/doctrine we will be apart from him to whatever degree we are missing it.

True doctrine of course must be obeyed from the heart. When it is one will be like Jesus. If false doctrine is obeyed from the heart Jesus says it is VAIN WORSHIP.

He does encourage his people that the Spirit will guide us into all truth. So yes there is room for us to grow in understanding. He does love his Children who are not yet walking in the purity of his word. But he does not leave them to walk in the imagination of their heart.

I think if you read the passage in context you will find that he promised when the Holy Spirit came He would guide THEM into all truth. There may be a sense in which the HS guides us into truth but not in the same way as the disciples. If you back up you will find that Jesus first said to them,

These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:25-26

and then

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:12-13

The reason for guiding them into all truth was because they could not bear it now. This truth that he was talking about was His death, leaving them, coming to them in the form of the HS.

To borrow from someone else...."Context, context, context, students."

Jack Shephard · #12 05-22-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Many good points here ... including those who have misapplied this verse as worshipping in true doctrine .... although some do worship their doctrines

Worship is a lifestyle ....

He cannot despise a humble and contrite heart.

It would take to long to catch up here on this thread, but there is a great book out there by Louie Giglio called 'The Air I Breathe, Worship As A Way of Life.' It is worth the read.

OneAccord · #13 05-22-2008, 09:32 AM

The point of my article wasn't about a doctrine about Jesus Christ but rather of the importance of maintaining a right relationship with Him. This is an Apostolic forum where most everyone believes in Apostolic doctrine. Saw no need to "preach to the choir" on a subject most here are very familair with. IMO, theres been entirely too much doctrinal haggling here lately. I just thought some might find it refreshing to take a look at a familar passage of Scripture from another perspective.

And no, I didn't repost the article with Acts 2:38 interjected with you in mind specifically. It was for anyone who might feel like you did here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
As if the doctrine of God and Christ is less than nothing. We can believe anything we want about it or ignore it and thats ok. Scripture teaches a very different story.

Yes, I did ignore doctrine in the article, because it wasn't about doctrine. The Bible speaks alot about truth- some "objective" having to do with doctrine- and some, subjective- as in this article.

Brother, the doctrine of Jesus Christ is the very foundation of God's Church. I believe that as much as you do. I apprecaite your input, but I noticed you didn't answer the question. What is of greater value- a correct doctrine or a Christ like spirit?

OneAccord · #14 05-22-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

I just thought some might find it refreshing to take a look at a familar passage of Scripture from another perspective.

Of course, it seems I was wrong.

James Griffin · #15 05-22-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Brother, I realize you don't know me, nor do I know you. So, I have to ask you this: is there something in what I posted that would lead you to conclude (mistakenly, I might add) that I think of the doctrine of Christ as "less than nothing"? Of course true doctrine is crucial. But more so is the need for us to maintain a right spirit before God (and toward our brothers in Christ). To reach the conclusion that you reached with that last statement (in bold) begs the question: What is of greater value- a correct doctrine or a Christ like spirit? What good is a correct doctrine when our spirits are apart from God? Continue in true doctrine, by all means. But, if we gain all the truth in the world and live apart from a spiritual relationship with the Lord, what have we gained?

So profound the only addition would be

AMEN

Michael The Disciple · #16 05-22-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Brother, the doctrine of Jesus Christ is the very foundation of God's Church. I believe that as much as you do. I apprecaite your input, but I noticed you didn't answer the question. What is of greater value- a correct doctrine or a Christ like spirit?

My answer is one has a Christ like spirit to the degree he follows his teachings. One might be a nice guy but be worshipping in vain. Why not allow his Spirit and his teaching to fashion a Christ like Spirit into us? Sorry if this seems personal but almost all I have ever heard is that doctrine dont matter (except Acts 2:38) of course. I also am trying to inject some balance. You are not wrong for desiring that.

Baron1710 · #17 05-22-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Griffin

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So profound the only addition would be

AMEN

Ditto.

ShofarMan · #18 05-22-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Brother, I realize you don't know me, nor do I know you. So, I have to ask you this: is there something in what I posted that would lead you to conclude (mistakenly, I might add) that I think of the doctrine of Christ as "less than nothing"? Of course true doctrine is crucial. But more so is the need for us to maintain a right spirit before God (and toward our brothers in Christ). To reach the conclusion that you reached with that last statement (in bold) begs the question: What is of greater value- a correct doctrine or a Christ like spirit? What good is a correct doctrine when our spirits are apart from God? Continue in true doctrine, by all means. But, if we gain all the truth in the world and live apart from a spiritual relationship with the Lord, what have we gained?

Well said

Michael The Disciple · #19 05-22-2008, 10:48 PM

Hey folks what is your definition of a Christ like spirit?

OneAccord · #20 05-23-2008, 04:51 AM

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
G al 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal. 5:10-21 speaks of the carnal nature of the unregenerated man. Once we become Christ's, we partake on His divine nature: 2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. We are made like Him. Our old "works of the flesh" are crucified, and our nature is reborn (born again). We become new creatures in Christ. His nature becomes our nature. The Fruit of the Spirit is the expression of His nature within us.