Men in Womens Bathroom: A Reality now in CO

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

They need Jesus.

I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No I was saying what you last said that transgender is a broad term that covers transexuals as well

Gotcha.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Rico

I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?

For the most part it is not the church that is at fault. The blood of Jesus can save to the uttermost - including persecution from the "church" if need be.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Rico

I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?

There is a local ministry in the Cincinnati area called Prodigal Ministries
http://www.prodigalministries.net/
led by a young man named Jerry Armelli which ministers to and works with gays and lesbians. Jerry has spoken at the local Vineyard one weekend and he and some of his team came for a Monday night meeting of the Growth and Healing ministry.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rico

I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?

I still think they are freaks, but I would only call them that behind their backs

Seriously I used to witness to one many years ago before I found out "her" secret. Afterwards I still treated "her" as I did before but in my mind you always have that nagging thought "this was a dude....so thats why she has no hips!"

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Rico

I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?

Years ago I read a book by David Wilkerson. I think the title was The Untapped Generation but I am not sure. In it he said that they had a very low success rate with homosexuals (as they were called back then).

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

For the most part it is not the church that is at fault. The blood of Jesus can save to the uttermost - including persecution from the "church" if need be.

The problem isn't Jesus or His blood. The problem is with how people like this get treated by the church, before and after conversion. A lot of good it does to call people fa*****, queers, freaks, disgusting, and generally show contempt towards anyone caught in these sorts of traps. We've got a long way to go in learning how to love the sinner when it comes to homosexuals, transvestites, and transgendered people. We try to hid behind saying we love the sinner and hate the sin, but I certainly don't see alcoholics, drug addicts, adulterers, sexually promiscuous men and women, and other sinners treated the way we treat these folks. Even when we do manage to get one to convert, we still treat these people like they have the plague. It's a disgrace to everything that Jesus stands for and what Christianity is supposed to be about, in my opinion.

[Sam]

I prayed with a young man several years ago that was having sexual identity problems. He was leaving for college and was not going to be around this area. I asked him if he was physically a male and he answered in the affirmative. He said he just felt like he was female inside. I realize that some folks can have outward sex organs of one sex and have internal organs of another. Also I realize that some folks have gender identity problems because they have been made to feel like the sex they are is not pleasing to a parent. Like the family that wanted a boy but when a girl was born she was always made to feel like she was a disappointment because she was a girl and the parents wished shee was a boy. He told me that his problem was not because of parental disappointment. He didn't know about his internal organs. All I could do was assure him that God loved him and he had to love himself. I told him that when he went to college to talk to a counselor there and they could find out to a greater degree why he felt like he was really a girl in a boy's body. I don't know what ever happened. He moved away.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Sam

There is a local ministry in the Cincinnati area called Prodigal Ministries
http://www.prodigalministries.net/
led by a young man named Jerry Armelli which ministers to and works with gays and lesbians. Jerry has spoken at the local Vineyard one weekend and he and some of his team came for a Monday night meeting of the Growth and Healing ministry.

It's a good thing that some people are starting to wake up and see the need for these types of ministries. It would be nice if the church as a whole would follow suit.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Rico

The problem isn't Jesus or His blood. The problem is with how people like this get treated by the church, before and after conversion. A lot of good it does to call people fa*****, queers, freaks, disgusting, and generally show contempt towards anyone caught in these sorts of traps. We've got a long way to go in learning how to love the sinner when it comes to homosexuals, transvestites, and transgendered people. We try to hid behind saying we love the sinner and hate the sin, but I certainly don't see alcoholics, drug addicts, adulterers, sexually promiscuous men and women, and other sinners treated the way we treat these folks. Even when we do manage to get one to convert, we still treat these people like they have the plague. It's a disgrace to everything that Jesus stands for and what Christianity is supposed to be about, in my opinion.

The Brooklyn Tabernacle has been successful in some cases working with people with these problems.

We have to distinguish between a person being homosexual (and we really don't know why) and a person who lives the homosexual life style.