Could You Spot Jezebel in Your Church?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Let me go ahead and respond to the post that hasn't been posted yet, lol.

The scripture that I'm sure PO is referencing speaks of not being adorned in gold, pearls, the plaiting of the hair, and costly array.

That wasn't my point and if you would get the "standards" chip off of your shoulder you might understand what I was trying to say. I'm not going to explain further because if you didn't get it - you just didn't get it.

I am sick of this shallow discussion on "standards"!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Let me go ahead and respond to the post that hasn't been posted yet, lol.

The scripture that I'm sure PO is referencing speaks of not being adorned in gold, pearls, the plaiting of the hair, and costly array.

If you consider the time in which this scripture was written, one will understand that braiding gold and pearls into one's hair, and wearing them garishly on the body was an outward sign of wealth. This is what Paul was speaking against.

It's also why James said that if a man comes into the church in fancy apparel, and you give him a seat of authority based on that appearance, you're committing sin!

Now, let's relate that to our generation - what's an outward sign of wealth in our day? It's a man wearing a 1500 dollar suit, a Rolex watch, and driving a Mercedes, among other things. Are those things preached against? Absolutely not!

So, in order to be consistent with scripture, let's define modesty - not the outward showing of one's wealth or prestige.

Now, as a side note, it's always amused me that from Paul's writings to Timothy, we conclude this -

The fancy apparel is ok, the braiding of the hair is ok, but the gold and pearls are a sin - Only if worn in the ears, or on the wrist, unless of course, it's a gold wristwatch.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That wasn't my point and if you would get the "standards" chip off of your shoulder you might understand what I was trying to say. I'm not going to explain further because if you didn't get it - you just didn't get it.

I am sick of this shallow discussion on "standards"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, forgive me, PO, what did you mean when you asked if I'd read Timothy lately?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Well, forgive me, PO, what did you mean when you asked if I'd read Timothy lately?

Nothing. I just asked because I don't have anything else to do.

[MissBrattified]

I believe in being modest. I just don't believe that it is the ultimate test of Christianity, and I get tired of being judged or looking at other people and having to stop myself from judging them based on what I've been conditioned to believe about outward appearance.

Recently one of my nieces told me about a wonderful spiritual experience she had at Youth camp, and believe it or not, the cynical side of me was saying "Yeah, right" inside my head--simply because they don't keep standards. I had to correct myself inwardly and do a personal "How dare you", regarding questioning someone else's experience with God--based on what they WEAR. Btw, they are Apostolic in doctrine.

What's crazy about it, is the LOGICAL side of me doesn't even buy into the modesty=spirituality mess, but I obviously have been influenced more than I realize by some things that have been taught.

On the flip side, of COURSE I believe modesty is important. I believe it is important to GOD, though, only from the perspective that we prefer our brother, and treat them with respect, e.g., don't eat meat in front of a vegan. Application: Don't flash your cleavage to a brother. (or non-brother)

Modest in this culture is certainly not the same as modest in Jesus' day, but the principles are the same. I think we can all agree that you don't dress in such a way that causes others to lust, but yet we also understand that someone who has a corrupt mind is going to lust no matter what you have on. I think we can agree that we shouldn't spend obscene amounts of money on apparel, but at the same time, I agree with PO that being a good steward also means investing in quality items.

This is not a simple topic, and it is OVERLY simplistic to say that a person who isn't modest isn't holy, or that a person who is holy WILL be modest. Again, according to whom?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Nothing. I just asked because I don't have anything else to do.

I would love to discuss this with you, if you'll tell me what you meant.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I believe in being modest. I just don't believe that it is the ultimate test of Christianity, and I get tired of being judged or looking at other people and having to stop myself from judging them based on what I've been conditioned to believe about outward appearance.

Recently one of my nieces told me about a wonderful spiritual experience she had at Youth camp, and believe it or not, the cynical side of me was saying "Yeah, right" inside my head--simply because they don't keep standards. I had to correct myself inwardly and do a personal "How dare you", regarding questioning someone else's experience with God--based on what they WEAR. Btw, they are Apostolic in doctrine.

What's crazy about it, is the LOGICAL side of me doesn't even buy into the modesty=spirituality mess, but I obviously have been influenced more than I realize by some things that have been taught.

On the flip side, of COURSE I believe modesty is important. I believe it is important to GOD, though, only from the perspective that we prefer our brother, and treat them with respect, e.g., don't eat meat in front of a vegan. Application: Don't flash your cleavage to a brother. (or non-brother)

Modest in this culture is certainly not the same as modest in Jesus' day, but the principles are the same. I think we can all agree that you don't dress in such a way that causes others to lust, but yet we also understand that someone who has a corrupt mind is going to lust no matter what you have on. I think we can agree that we shouldn't spend obscene amounts of money on apparel, but at the same time, I agree with PO that being a good steward also means investing in quality items.

This is not a simple topic, and it is OVERLY simplistic to say that a person who isn't modest isn't holy, or that a person who is holy WILL be modest. Again, according to whom?

This post may have just bumped you from Womens' Pastor to Associate Pastor.

[rgcraig]

I think I know who has the standards chip on their shoulder.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I think I know who has the standards chip on their shoulder.

Do chips come in one size fits all?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I believe in being modest. I just don't believe that it is the ultimate test of Christianity, and I get tired of being judged or looking at other people and having to stop myself from judging them based on what I've been conditioned to believe about outward appearance.

Recently one of my nieces told me about a wonderful spiritual experience she had at Youth camp, and believe it or not, the cynical side of me was saying "Yeah, right" inside my head--simply because they don't keep standards. I had to correct myself inwardly and do a personal "How dare you", regarding questioning someone else's experience with God--based on what they WEAR. Btw, they are Apostolic in doctrine.

What's crazy about it, is the LOGICAL side of me doesn't even buy into the modesty=spirituality mess, but I obviously have been influenced more than I realize by some things that have been taught.

On the flip side, of COURSE I believe modesty is important. I believe it is important to GOD, though, only from the perspective that we prefer our brother, and treat them with respect, e.g., don't eat meat in front of a vegan. Application: Don't flash your cleavage to a brother. (or non-brother)

Modest in this culture is certainly not the same as modest in Jesus' day, but the principles are the same. I think we can all agree that you don't dress in such a way that causes others to lust, but yet we also understand that someone who has a corrupt mind is going to lust no matter what you have on. I think we can agree that we shouldn't spend obscene amounts of money on apparel, but at the same time, I agree with PO that being a good steward also means investing in quality items.

This is not a simple topic, and it is OVERLY simplistic to say that a person who isn't modest isn't holy, or that a person who is holy WILL be modest. Again, according to whom?

Excellent post!