Could You Spot Jezebel in Your Church?

[Cindy]

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This post may have just bumped you from Womens' Pastor to Associate Pastor.

I don't know how this happened. LOL! Maybe vacation did me good!

I could never be a "pastor" of any sort--you won't believe this (maybe) but I am a TERRIBLE public speaker. I hyperventilate, or simply stop breathing altogether. I hate to testify, and can't stand making even an announcement. It's all I can do to introduce the choir sometimes. No exaggeration, either--I've had my pastor sit on the front row during a local music seminar and mouth the word "Breathe" to me while I taught a class!

No, I have to sing it, or write it, or say it around the dinner table. LOL!!!!! Maybe in a small group setting, as long as I can sit down.

[Elizabeth]

It's funny because the spirit of Jezebel can be so subtle that you don't even realize that is what it is until that person has caused so much grief and pain.

What's even stranger the people who have caused Keith and I the most trouble have the "look".

The last woman who tried to control the church, because that is the ultimate goal is to control the ministry for their own gain and power. She was soft spoken, easy going and seemed so so sweet. But it was just a front to use us for her own advantage.

A Jezebel can literally be a parasite-sorry to be so blunt. But when they are done with their host, they go find someone else to feed on. All to get their way, have their influence until you figure them out.

This woman wanted so bad to have a traveling music ministry she almost did anything to get it, call our ministry friends and ask to sing at their churches, call evangelist to offer to travel with them and at our own church had to be front and center because music was her "passion". All the while we received so many complaints about her talent it became unbearable.


But the spirit of Jezebel has nothing to do with the outside, that can even fool you--it can come in any package. But untimate goal is controll.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't know how this happened. LOL! Maybe vacation did me good!

I could never be a "pastor" of any sort--you won't believe this (maybe) but I am a TERRIBLE public speaker. I hyperventilate, or simply stop breathing altogether. I hate to testify, and can't stand making even an announcement. It's all I can do to introduce the choir sometimes. No exaggeration, either--I've had my pastor sit on the front row during a local music seminar and mouth the word "Breathe" to me while I taught a class!

No, I have to sing it, or write it, or say it around the dinner table. LOL!!!!! Maybe in a small group setting, as long as I can sit down.

Sounds like Exodus 3 and 4 ....

What do you have in your hand?

You are among the wisest, articulate, knowledgeable, bible savvy and clearest thinkers on this forum. ... and very pastoral in your delivery while still being a straight shooter

Just an observation, Annie.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I would love to discuss this with you, if you'll tell me what you meant.

I apologize to you.

I'm not going to discuss this because the conversation always spirals back down to - the dress or pants issue.

It goes much deeper than that and it gets lost every time. I don't have the time, temperament or inclination to become involved in it anymore.

I'm sure you understand where I am coming from when I asked you about your belief on Acts 2:38. You said you were not going to discuss that on the open forum.

So, I feel the same way about this issue. It gets misunderstood every time and I just get aggravated - obviously.

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I believe in being modest. I just don't believe that it is the ultimate test of Christianity, and I get tired of being judged or looking at other people and having to stop myself from judging them based on what I've been conditioned to believe about outward appearance.

Recently one of my nieces told me about a wonderful spiritual experience she had at Youth camp, and believe it or not, the cynical side of me was saying "Yeah, right" inside my head--simply because they don't keep standards. I had to correct myself inwardly and do a personal "How dare you", regarding questioning someone else's experience with God--based on what they WEAR. Btw, they are Apostolic in doctrine.

What's crazy about it, is the LOGICAL side of me doesn't even buy into the modesty=spirituality mess, but I obviously have been influenced more than I realize by some things that have been taught.

On the flip side, of COURSE I believe modesty is important. I believe it is important to GOD, though, only from the perspective that we prefer our brother, and treat them with respect, e.g., don't eat meat in front of a vegan. Application: Don't flash your cleavage to a brother. (or non-brother)

Modest in this culture is certainly not the same as modest in Jesus' day, but the principles are the same. I think we can all agree that you don't dress in such a way that causes others to lust, but yet we also understand that someone who has a corrupt mind is going to lust no matter what you have on. I think we can agree that we shouldn't spend obscene amounts of money on apparel, but at the same time, I agree with PO that being a good steward also means investing in quality items.

This is not a simple topic, and it is OVERLY simplistic to say that a person who isn't modest isn't holy, or that a person who is holy WILL be modest. Again, according to whom?

right on miss b, good words, i agree, dt

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I believe in being modest. I just don't believe that it is the ultimate test of Christianity, and I get tired of being judged or looking at other people and having to stop myself from judging them based on what I've been conditioned to believe about outward appearance.

Recently one of my nieces told me about a wonderful spiritual experience she had at Youth camp, and believe it or not, the cynical side of me was saying "Yeah, right" inside my head--simply because they don't keep standards. I had to correct myself inwardly and do a personal "How dare you", regarding questioning someone else's experience with God--based on what they WEAR. Btw, they are Apostolic in doctrine.

What's crazy about it, is the LOGICAL side of me doesn't even buy into the modesty=spirituality mess, but I obviously have been influenced more than I realize by some things that have been taught.

On the flip side, of COURSE I believe modesty is important. I believe it is important to GOD, though, only from the perspective that we prefer our brother, and treat them with respect, e.g., don't eat meat in front of a vegan. Application: Don't flash your cleavage to a brother. (or non-brother)

Modest in this culture is certainly not the same as modest in Jesus' day, but the principles are the same. I think we can all agree that you don't dress in such a way that causes others to lust, but yet we also understand that someone who has a corrupt mind is going to lust no matter what you have on. I think we can agree that we shouldn't spend obscene amounts of money on apparel, but at the same time, I agree with PO that being a good steward also means investing in quality items.

This is not a simple topic, and it is OVERLY simplistic to say that a person who isn't modest isn't holy, or that a person who is holy WILL be modest. Again, according to whom?

I think that we always need to keep in mind that God is building us - His church- continually. As each individual is unique and has a responsibility to answer whatever deep call God has placed on them. All the while knowing that He is not a respecter of persons, keeping us from becoming high minded.

We don't know where He will lead us in one year, two, five, ten. We have to be reaching, personally, for the mark of the high calling of Christ.

For me, I can't get my life defined by opinions on a Forum Board or even an individual at church. I must be lead by the Spirit.

We can't draw a line in the sand either way and say - This is the way we should walk on this issue. It will always be personal convictions.

That's all I am trying to say.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that we always need to keep in mind that God is building us - His church- continually. As each individual is unique and has a responsibility to answer whatever deep call God has placed on them. All the while knowing that He is not a respecter of persons, keeping us from becoming high minded.

We don't know where He will lead us in one year, two, five, ten. We have to be reaching, personally, for the mark of the high calling of Christ.

For me, I can't get my life defined by opinions on a Forum Board or even an individual at church. I must be lead by the Spirit.

We can't draw a line in the sand either way and say - This is the way we should walk on this issue. It will always be personal convictions.

That's all I am trying to say.

I agree.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that we always need to keep in mind that God is building us - His church- continually. As each individual is unique and has a responsibility to answer whatever deep call God has placed on them. All the while knowing that He is not a respecter of persons, keeping us from becoming high minded.

We don't know where He will lead us in one year, two, five, ten. We have to be reaching, personally, for the mark of the high calling of Christ.

For me, I can't get my life defined by opinions on a Forum Board or even an individual at church. I must be lead by the Spirit.

We can't draw a line in the sand either way and say - This is the way we should walk on this issue. It will always be personal convictions.

That's all I am trying to say.

Maybe this is the disconnect - - not sure the opinions on a forum are trying to define your life. They are just opinions just as your opinions are yours.

They are personal convictions, but discussing them doesn't take that away.

I learn something from each discussion we have around - - might just be the intolerance of some, but I learn something.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree.

Amen.