Can A Plurality Of Elders Work?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This proves my point. First off the method of leadership IS GIVEN in the New Testament. Acts 14 tells Elders were ordained in every Church. No scripture says A PASTOR was ordained for a Church. So todays Ministers have a vision not equal to that of the early Church starting right here.

But then the Ministers of today as stated earlier deny the very purpose OF THE MINISTRY!

Does the head of the Church require his people to be perfect?

Be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

So yes the fruit of todays Assemblies is obvious. One cannot say the one man system works on the basis that it IS working.

Tomatoe, Tomatoe.........Pastor.......Elder. What does it matter what you call them? If they are ordained, they are ordained. If they have the oversight it doesn't matter what title they hold. To different organizations the terms mean different things.

The Head of the church does NOT require His people to be perfect. They are to be perfected. They will NEVER be perfect down here. We are all in the process of being perfected and will NEVER reach the place that our flaws are gone until we are freed from these bodies.

Are you stating that you believe in the doctrine of sinless perfection?

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Tomatoe, Tomatoe.........Pastor.......Elder. What does it matter what you call them? If they are ordained, they are ordained. If they have the oversight it doesn't matter what title they hold. To different organizations the terms mean different things.

The Head of the church does NOT require His people to be perfect. They are to be perfected. They will NEVER be perfect down here. We are all in the process of being perfected and will NEVER reach the place that our flaws are gone until we are freed from these bodies.

Are you stating that you believe in the doctrine of sinless perfection?

I thought PERFECt meant MATURE in Christ. I hope we can be perfect down here...

[Felicity]

I have a co-worker here whose husband is part of a plurality of eldership in their church. They don't have a "pastor" as such.

It's a very small work. Apostolic Baptist!

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

I thought PERFECt meant MATURE in Christ. I hope we can be perfect down here...

It does. We have no disagreement there. You need to define your terms. Most folks don't think of perfect the way meant it. I know people who believe in the doctrine of sinless perfect, which is why I asked.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I have a co-worker here whose husband is part of a plurality of eldership in their church. They don't have a "pastor" as such.

It's a very small work. Apostolic Baptist!

As I understand it, with the possible exclusion of the communal Jerusalem church, all the works in the time the apostles were alive were small works (in our terms at least) were they not?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Problem with Bishop ruling over Elders is a Bishop and Elder are the same thing. Who says that the one Pastor system is working? Most Churches do not understand the foundations of the New Testament Faith. Most Churches dont believe in perfection and therefore do not teach it.

Are the Saints in todays Churches being made perfect in Christ? Plurality of Elders at least IS scriptural where one Pastor Churches are not. Someone post a New Testament scripture that mentions one man being the Pastor of an assembley.

I agree, the fact that a plurality of elders doesn't often work is evidence that leadership is in only the first stage of development. Immaturity and lack of vision is the primary issues. Children want their own way, mature adults should be able to come to a common vision thru the leadership of the Holy Spirit and work together. I do acknowledge that a lead elder is needed, however every leader in the church must be accountable to other leaders, simply with differing responsibilities. The lead elder "bishop", name is not as important as function, can be first among equals. The leadership team must do the hard work of defining the vision and committing to carrying it out, and make no mistake it is hard work. Is a marriage hard work, of course it is, but that doesn't mean we throw it out and just say it doesn't work. Nowhere in scripture will you find the single man leadership of the church, it is not biblical.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

As I understand it, with the possible exclusion of the communal Jerusalem church, all the works in the time the apostles were alive were small works (in our terms at least) were they not?

Some sources say the Jerusalem church had over 70,000 members, there were over one million residents of Jerusalem in those days. I have been on an elder team in a church of 400 to 500. The church (1200 attendance) we currently attend has a Senior pastor but has very much a leadership team, not just in word, we also have outside counsel from mature leaders, that our team meets with regularly for counsel.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Some sources say the Jerusalem church had over 70,000 members, there were over one million residents of Jerusalem in those days.

Yes... I was certainly aware of the magnitude of their success in reaching the world in their day... but they did this in small groups that would fit in individual homes.

That 70,000 member church was, in all probability, made up of 3,000+ small works.

There was no church building somewhere in Jerusalem running 2500 people. They were all small works but one body and together hey were very successful.

[Scott Hutchinson]

If my understanding is correct a Presbytery was a of group or Bishops in a local church, not a group of men who excercised control over ministers from the outside.A group of Elders laid hands on young Timothy.I understand NT. churches were autonomous ,but Bishops and Apostles,teachers,evangelists did get together for church councils like in ACTS.15 for meetings on concensus on fundamental doctrine.Apostles in NT.times were a foundational office.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I have a co-worker here whose husband is part of a plurality of eldership in their church. They don't have a "pastor" as such.

It's a very small work. Apostolic Baptist!

Now, that is interesting...