Can A Person Be A Smoker & Still Be Saved

[RandyWayne]

There is no hard and fast definition of "addiction" either -although some mental health professional may come on to refute what I just said.

When people hear addiction, they often think of the heroin addict or as it pertains to smoking, the person who takes a dozen smoke breaks a day at work and does two packs a day.

But what about the person who HAS to read a chapter or two of a book before falling asleep at night? And if a book isn't available, they spend hours tossing and turning?
Or the person, who when stressed, HAS to get in their car and drive?
Or similarly, needs to get out and power walk to "relieve their tension"?

Shouldn't prayer be a substitute for any of the above? Even laying on the beach and relaxing? Or ANY entertainment?

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

There is no hard and fast definition of "addiction" either -although some mental health professional may come on to refute what I just said.

When people hear addiction, they often think of the heroin addict or as it pertains to smoking, the person who takes a dozen smoke breaks a day at work and does two packs a day.

But what about the person who HAS to read a chapter or two of a book before falling asleep at night? And if a book isn't available, they spend hours tossing and turning?
Or the person, who when stressed, HAS to get in their car and drive?
Or similarly, needs to get out and power walk to "relieve their tension"?

Or the person, like Spurgeon, who can go months without a cigar or smoke occasionally. Not everyone who uses tobacco is addicted.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

There is no hard and fast definition of "addiction" either -although some mental health professional may come on to refute what I just said.

When people hear addiction, they often think of the heroin addict or as it pertains to smoking, the person who takes a dozen smoke breaks a day at work and does two packs a day.

But what about the person who HAS to read a chapter or two of a book before falling asleep at night? And if a book isn't available, they spend hours tossing and turning?
Or the person, who when stressed, HAS to get in their car and drive?
Or similarly, needs to get out and power walk to "relieve their tension"?

Shouldn't prayer be a substitute for any of the above? Even laying on the beach and relaxing? Or ANY entertainment?

I think the difference is that smoking is harmful to the body, and if a person does become addicted, it is potentially harmful to the mind and spirit as well.

No one said that anything that relaxes you or makes you feel good is bad.

[LUKE2447]

Nowhere in

Act 10:11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."
Act 10:14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."
Act 10:15 And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."

...does God make that which is by nature unclean, clean! Never! The scripture says that all kinds of animals where in the sheet. That included things that could be eaten normally. The problem is that the clean was WITH the unclean. Which made it common or ritualistically unclean, do to association. God said call not though "COMMON", UNCLEAN! Otherwise don't judge by association! Thus the point of the Gentiles in the following vs's that he should not judge these Gentiles just for being Gentiles and Peter should not consider guilt by association. God had chosen and separated them. These Gentiles most likely where what many would call "alien", "foreigner within the gate" or "God-Fearer" who had fully, partially or where in the process being converted to Judaism in some form or manner. As God had seen the acts of Cornelius

Act 10:22 And they said, "Cornelius, a centurion, an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and to hear what you have to say."

Again, nowhere in the text did it say God made that which was by nature unclean, clean but not to call common that which was clean made common or ritualistically unclean by association with unclean. Which was how the Jews of that time treated Gentiles according to the "oral law" which was a abomination unto God. If you believe that in this text that God made all meats (which would be a parallel to people) unclean, clean you would have to believe in Universalism or Universal Salvation.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Rico

Nicotine, unless given in high doses, is not harmful to the body, in and of itself. It's not the nicotine that activates cancer cells in the body.

Sorry, nicotine is the addictive substance, right? But it is the smoke that is harmful, you're right. I edited my post.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think the difference is that nicotine is harmful to the body, and if a person does become addicted, it is potentially harmful to the mind and spirit as well.

No one said that anything that relaxes you or makes you feel good is bad.

You are absolutely right and thus common sense we shouldn't do it. But now we come full circle -360 if you will, and where back to all the other things that are also 'not good for you' like fried and fatty foods, soda, overeating, complete and utter lack of exercise, etc.
If someone on this thread can make the bold prediction that there will be "no smokers in heaven, nay, not one!", how can they make the exception for everything else? Aren't THEY the ones trying to find the loopholes that us "liberals" are always accused of doing?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

You are absolutely right and thus common sense we shouldn't do it. But now we come full circle -360 if you will, and where back to all the other things that are also 'not good for you' like fried and fatty foods, soda, overeating, complete and utter lack of exercise, etc.
If someone on this thread can make the bold prediction that there will be "no smokers in heaven, nay, not one!", how can they make the exception for everything else? Aren't THEY the ones trying to find the loopholes that us "liberals" are always accused of doing?

I agree with you about foods, except that food is something we have to have in order to live, so I think it's a little harder to tell people what to eat, except to admonish them to make healthy choices and not to overeat.

The problem with that is, you're then dealing with ignorance, since many people don't have a clue about what makes up a healthy diet, or if they do, they don't know how to prepare it and bring it to the table for their families.

The Bible says gluttony is a sin, so that is as far as I'm willing to go on the issue of food. But a Christian walking around morbidly obese, addicted to food is no better witness than smoking or being addicted to any other substance.

I do wish preachers would address overeating and unhealthy eating habits, because it's obviously a problem. (within the church)

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree with you about foods, except that food is something we have to have in order to live, so I think it's a little harder to tell people what to eat, except to admonish them to make healthy choices and not to overeat.

The problem with that is, you're then dealing with ignorance, since many people don't have a clue about what makes up a healthy diet, or if they do, they don't know how to prepare it and bring it to the table for their families.

The Bible says gluttony is a sin, so that is as far as I'm willing to go on the issue of food. But a Christian walking around morbidly obese, addicted to food is no better witness than smoking or being addicted to any other substance.

I do wish preachers would address overeating and unhealthy eating habits, because it's obviously a problem. (within the church)

The ONLY time I EVER hear a preacher address it is as a joke like "we'll we SURE LOVE OUR FOOD! ha ha ha". To which the congregation laughs.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree with you about foods, except that food is something we have to have in order to live, so I think it's a little harder to tell people what to eat, except to admonish them to make healthy choices and not to overeat.

The problem with that is, you're then dealing with ignorance, since many people don't have a clue about what makes up a healthy diet, or if they do, they don't know how to prepare it and bring it to the table for their families.

The Bible says gluttony is a sin, so that is as far as I'm willing to go on the issue of food. But a Christian walking around morbidly obese, addicted to food is no better witness than smoking or being addicted to any other substance.

I do wish preachers would address overeating and unhealthy eating habits, because it's obviously a problem. (within the church)

Yes you do have to have "FOOD" but you don't have to have "certain" foods!
I believe "self control" is part of the blessings of God! Again God cares what you eat! He told us in part how! Amazing we don't follow what he did tell us!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

The ONLY time I EVER hear a preacher address it is as a joke like "we'll we SURE LOVE OUR FOOD! ha ha ha". To which the congregation laughs.

I come from a family of overweight people, RW, so I understand the conflict. I'm a size 14, and that's only because I constantly work at it. I would love to be a size 10 (or even a 12)...maybe someday! Even at my skinniest, (size 6 ), I still struggled with food. My father died from complications of diabetes, and when he first discovered he had it, if he had lost weight, it probably would have resolved itself. I now have a sister who is diabetic, and its caused by her weight.

My mother's side of the family--they're all skinny. LOL!!!! And in our home, my husband and all three kids are slim, because we make a lot of effort to eat healthy and we've done away with stupid ideas like "clear your plate", and "eat three times a day." For me, I've become a little bit of a zealot about making healthy food that still tastes good!

My husband has helped me create a healthier food atmosphere. Although, when I cook for company, I still revert back to the high fat, high sugar content foods sometimes--because that's what I grew up cooking and eating, and that's what I'm best at. Like Paula Deen...lol...every great recipe starts with a stick of real butter.

Preaching to a congregation full of overweight people is about as comfortable as looking a smoker in the eye and telling him he's going against biblical principles--it may be true, but its sometimes hard to say directly to the perpetrators. AND, if you have a minister who is also overweight, then he won't be able to ask the saints to do something he can't.