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  #81  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:23 PM
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Adino Adino is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
There you go. Hey Dan and Adino are these baptisms valid?
Valid baptisms?

Valid declarations of faith? Valid declarations of new Christians? Valid moments of demarcation in the lives of the baptizands? Valid acceptance into the Christian community?

Of course the baptisms were "valid."

In what I saw of the video the whacked preacher, though he allowed his abuse of glossolalia to get in the way of the practice and turn things into a monkey show (btw, I think he only accentuates what really happens to a lesser degree in Apostolic churches around the world), kept coming back to the traditional triune invocation which rightly incorporates a call of attention to the Son (Jesus Christ) as the object of the baptizand's faith.

While I certainly disagree with much of his protocol and views on charismata, the baptisms were indeed valid declarations of faith, of new Christians, of a demarcation in the lives of the baptismal candidates, and of acceptance into the Christian community at large.

Had there been no attempt to call attention to the Son of God I would agree that the baptisms were invalid because they would not have performed the purpose of the ritual in rightfully identifying the candidate with the Savior.

While I personally believe all baptisms should be performed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ because Scripture calls for men to have faith in God through Christ, it cannot be denied that the triune invocation does call on the Son of God and if attention was drawn to Christ (the Son) in these baptisms they were indeed 'effective' in accomplishing baptism's purpose.
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  #82  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:27 PM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adino View Post
Valid baptisms?

Valid declarations of faith? Valid declarations of new Christians? Valid moments of demarcation in the lives of the baptizands? Valid acceptance into the Christian community?

Of course the baptisms were "valid."

In what I saw of the video the whacked preacher, though he allowed his abuse of glossolalia to get in the way of the practice and turn things into a monkey show (btw, I think he only accentuates what really happens to a lesser degree in Apostolic churches around the world), kept coming back to the traditional triune invocation which rightly incorporates a call of attention to the Son (Jesus Christ) as the object of the baptizand's faith.

While I certainly disagree with much of his protocol and views on charismata, the baptisms were indeed valid declarations of faith, of new Christians, of a demarcation in the lives of the baptismal candidates, and of acceptance into the Christian community at large.

Had there been no attempt to call attention to the Son of God I would agree that the baptisms were invalid because they would not have performed the purpose of the ritual in rightfully identifying the candidate with the Savior.

While I personally believe all baptisms should be performed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ because Scripture calls for men to have faith in God through Christ, it cannot be denied that the triune invocation does call on the Son of God and if attention was drawn to Christ (the Son) in these baptisms they were indeed 'effective' in accomplishing baptism's purpose.
There you have it BAM baptism is valid.
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  #83  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:33 PM
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Adino Adino is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

You apparently didn't listen to him during the video, bro. While he did BAM people he also continually returned to the triune invocation in addition to his BAMMING.

Like I said, he only accentuated what goes on in most Apostolic churches by misusing tongues. Will you say that all those baptized under a preacher who includes "you sella my Honda" or "I tie my bow tie, you tie my bow tie" are invalid?

For that matter for the preacher who includes ANY words in addition to what you have come to identify as a saving invocation?
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  #84  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:37 PM
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Adino Adino is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

The point is this: The factor which must remain consistant in ALL baptisms is the heart converted to God through Christ. The baptismal candidate MUST have a heart which has been converted to faith in God through Christ. It is the lack of faith which would make a baptism 'invalid.'

Faith of the baptizand is much more important than the ignorance of the baptizer.

The baptism should rightfully declare the faith of the baptizand. If it has not, it has not fully performed its purpose.
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  #85  
Old 07-12-2008, 09:23 AM
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Darcie Darcie is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

According to what I heard on the news last night, TB is taking some time off. The revival will continue with guest speakers. It is not known when TB will be back.

I'm wondering it the AOG didn't like the BAM stuff.
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  #86  
Old 07-12-2008, 09:34 AM
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Bro-Larry Bro-Larry is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
There you have it BAM baptism is valid.
I believe TB is a child of the devil, an enemy of all righteousness, who ceases not to pervert the right ways of the Lord. (Acts 13:10)
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  #87  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:15 AM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
There you have it BAM baptism is valid.
OK, I've remained silent on the "validity" of the baptisms so far.
I know it's a circus atmosphere and there is a lot of emphasis put on Todd Bentley and his "cuteness." It's a "show." Kinda sad in a way, but people who love the Lord are being stirred and I'm sure there are genuine healings and miracles happening along with all the frou-frou, hoopla, silliness, etc. Is the flesh active here? Is satan active here? Don't the flesh and the satanic always accompany moves of the Spirit? Wasn't there a lot at Azusa Street that we don't like to think about and talk about, and wouldn't want in our churches on Sunday?

I would guess that many of those folks being baptized are sincerely doing it as an act of dedication to Jesus. I don't know their hearts. I just pray that God blesses them and helps them to continue growing in the Lord.
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  #88  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:16 AM
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chosenbyone chosenbyone is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcie View Post
According to what I heard on the news last night, TB is taking some time off. The revival will continue with guest speakers. It is not known when TB will be back.

I'm wondering it the AOG didn't like the BAM stuff.
From what I read on-line, Bentley and this latest "revival" has caused a big upset in the org. Many pastors have turned in their licenses and many more threatened to do the same.

I'll see if I can find the website that I read that info on and post it in a while.
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  #89  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:18 AM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

While on the subject of TB and the Lakeland "happenings," here is something I received yesterday. It is some quotes of the late Leonard Ravenhill, who is quoted by both oneness and trinity preachers:

Great RAVENHILL QUOTES
-Leonard Ravenhill.

“A popular evangelist reaches your emotions. A true prophet
reaches your conscience.”

“The last words of Jesus to the church (in Revelation) were ‘Repent!’”

“A true shepherd leads the way. He does not merely point the way.”

“Your doctrine can be as straight as a gun barrel—and just as empty!”

“John the Baptist never performed any miracles. Yet, he was greater
than any of the Old Testament prophets.”

“I doubt that more than two percent of professing Christians in the
United States are truly born again.”

“Our God is a consuming fire. He consumes pride, lust, materialism,
and other sin.”

“There are only two kinds of persons: those dead in sin and those dead to sin.”

[Concerning the darkness that has enveloped most of Christendom:]
“When you’re sitting in a dark room, you can either sit and curse the
darkness—or you can light a candle.”

“Children can tell you what Channel 7 says, but not what Matthew 7 says.”

“Some women will spend thirty minutes to an hour preparing for
church externally (putting on special clothes and makeup, etc.).
What would happen if we all spent the same amount of time
preparing internally for church—with prayer and meditation?”

“Maturity comes from obedience, not necessarily from age.”

“What good does it do to speak in tongues on Sunday if you have
been using your tongue during the week to curse and gossip?”

“The only time you can really say that ‘Christ is all I need,’ is when
Christ is all you have.”

“The Bible is either absolute, or it’s obsolete.”

“Why do we expect to be better treated in this world than Jesus was?”

“Today’s church wants to be raptured from responsibility.”

“Testimonies are wonderful. But, so often our lives don’t fit our testimonies.”

[Concerning one of the new “movements” in the church that was
causing a stir among Christians:] “There’s also a stir when the
circus comes to town.”

“My main ambition in life is to be on the Devil’s most wanted list.”

“You can’t develop character by reading books. You develop it from conflict.”

“When there’s something in the Bible that churches don’t like,
they call it ‘legalism.’”

“We can’t serve God by proxy.”

“We must do what we can do for God, before He will give us the
power to do what we can’t do.”

“There’s a difference between changing your opinion, and changing
your lifestyle.”

“Our seminaries today are turning out dead men.”

“How can you pull down strongholds of Satan if you don’t even have
the strength to turn off your TV?”

“Everyone recognizes that Stephen was Spirit-filled when he was
performing wonders. Yet, he was just as Spirit-filled when he was
being stoned to death.”

“If a Christian is not having tribulation in the world, there’s
something wrong!”

[Concerning the fixation that today’s church has with numbers,
with growth at any price:] “The church has paid a terrible price for
statistics!”

“Any method of evangelism will work—if God is in it.”

“Church unity comes from corporate humility.”

“You can have all of your doctrines right—yet still not have the
presence of God.”

“Many pastors criticize me for taking the Gospel so seriously. But
do they really think that on Judgment Day, Christ will chastise me,
saying, ‘Leonard, you took Me too seriously’?”

“If Jesus had preached the same message that ministers preach
today, He would never have been crucified.”

“You can know a lot about the atonement, and yet receive no benefit from it.”

“If the whole church goes off into deception, that will in no way
excuse us for not following Christ.”

RAVENHILL's MOST POWERFUL BOOK - "Why Revival Tarries".

~SOURCE - http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/Ravenhill.html

--
YES! - You have permission to post these emails
to friends or other groups, blogs, boards, etc. Go for it!
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Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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  #90  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:19 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro-Larry View Post
I believe TB is a child of the devil, an enemy of all righteousness, who ceases not to pervert the right ways of the Lord. (Acts 13:10)
Big Larry hardly ever do we agree but this guy is nuts and probably demon possessed. This was NOT a baptismal service it was a freak show like kids playing in a pool.
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