Why Apostolic women wear veils Pt 1

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her for her hair is given her for a covering.

explain this scripture.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

explain this scripture.

What's to explain?

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

What's to explain?

why did paul say the hair was the covering

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

why did paul say the hair was the covering

If hair was the primary focus of his argument then what was the point of mentioning public prayer/prophesy?

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

explain this scripture.

I already have explained it in part 2. How do you explain this?

1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered G177 dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Is paul saying that if a woman prays or prophesies uncovered (without her hair) it is like she were shaven. No, I beleive that he realizes that she is coming to God to pray or prophesy/teach-preach with her hair but without a covering/veil. So he compares this (being without a veil) as being shaven. It would make no sense that he would say that if you come to pray without your hair it would be like you are shaven. He would be reiterating the same statement. If you come to pray without your hair it is like you have no hair.

This is a showing symbolically that she no longer wants to out of the will of God. She knows her place and is not trying to usurp the mans authority but is under submission to God by being under her husbands authority. This gives the woman alot of liberty to do Gods work as long as she understands that the devil used the womans pride to go above what God established with Adam. She doubted God and disobeyed him by disobeying the command he had given to Adam, her head or spiritual authority. Has God Said? or is Adam lying to you, in other words.

When God spoke he did so to Adam even though in some cases as in the curse he spoke to Eve as well. We know God spoke to Cain, Noah & his sons, Abraham, Issac, Jacob and the covenant he makes with them is believed by their wives and seed/offspring. The covenant is made to man and he is to repeat what God has spoken. They show that they are under submission by doing what God tells them. Eve also heard God and recognized his voice, Sarah heard God speaking to Abram and even laughed on one occassion but the covenants and commands were made to the man.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
.Gen 6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Gen 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered G2619, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
G2619 κατακαλύπτω katakaluptō
Total KJV Occurrences: 3
covered, 2
1Co_11:6 (2)
cover, 1
1Co_11:7

Is Paul once again saying if a woman has no hair (not covered) let her shave it. When hair is inserted in this verse it makes no sense.

Now Paul recognizes the order of God and states it at the begining of this chapter (1 Cor. 11) In the verses 3-10 he is speaking of the spiritual significance of headship or spiritual authority. This is shown symbolically in prayer by the covering. The man uncovers his head in submission to God and the woman covers her head in submission to her authority(husband or father). The man has the authority to lead his family in receiving instruction from God and then relaying that message to his family. In verses 11-15 Paul switches to the natural world to give spritual understanding.

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

[Carpenter]

We used to be part of part of this sect. The funky thing to me is that they still believe women can't cut their hair.

My question is what happens if a woman needs to call upon the name of the Lord in a car accident and don't have her veil on?

This is nothing more than Apostolic Assembly tradition tradition, yie de die die, yie de die die...traditiuuuuuuon tradition!!!

(fiddler on the roof)

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

in the first part of the chapter he talks about the importance of a covering and in the 2nd half he tells us what that covering is.

He is using nature to show how there is a distinction between the man and the woman. It is a glory to her to have long hair. He is using the word peribolain as opposed to katakalupto. By what standard do we apply this verse. It has been used through the centuries as a veil covering and for the past 60 years the modern standard of hair used as a covering.

The vow of the nazarite was to subject himself against his natural will (desire of the flesh as opposed to leading of the spirit) to consecrate or separate himself to the Lord. If the hair were given for a covering then a man would be going against Gods will by having long hair. The hair is not given for a covering but for a distinction between the man and the woman. If men by nature had long hair then it would not be significant to not cut their hair. When others saw a man with long hair in the Hebrew or Israel nation it was either a sign of a nazarite vow or rebellion. This was against the natural order. Samson had long hair for a nazarite vow from his birth. Absalom had long hair as pride in his beauty but rebellious in his heart. Paul was keenly aware of the nazarite vow for he took this himself. A person would shave their head as a sign of mourning or completion of a vow. Paul knew the conotations of what hair represented. This was not his focus. It is the ordinance of covering the head and what it represented.

Num 6:5 All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

A biblical answer to why Apostolic women wear veils

1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered,G2596 G2776 dishonoureth his head.
G2596 κατά kata
Total KJV Occurrences: 378 ( Used only once of 378 as covered)
covered, 1
1Co_11:4
Thayer Definition:
1) down from, through out
2) according to, toward, along

The Main theme of Corinthians 11 is about divine order in prayer and prophesying. How God wants obedience and subjection in contrast to rebellion and disorder. Just as Christ himself was subject to God so man should be subject to Christ. Not my will but thine be done. Man made in the image and glory of God has no other superior on this earth yet he subjects himself to Gods divine ordinances. God has put all things under his feet. Man must first take his place removing his head covering in respect to his superior when he approaches God or represents Him in prophesy(preaching). There can be nothing covering (kata-hanging down from) his head showing that he is being subject to anyone but God. This all refers back to Gen. 3.15-16. When woman takes her place by being in subjection to her head, the fallen angels are not able to work through her as Satan did through Eve. Satans seed are the rebellious angels that followed him. The woman shows that she is subject to her spiritual authority by covering her head. Her curse was that he/man would rule over her.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered G177 dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
G177 ἀκατακάλυπτος akatakaluptos
Total KJV Occurrences: 2
uncovered, 2
1Co_11:5, 1Co_11:13
unveiled: - uncovered. Strongs
Thayer Definition:
1) not covered, unveiled
Part of Speech: adjective

When a woman comes to pray without covering her head (akatakaluptos) she is showing insubordination. When she places a veil on her head she has power on her head and the ministering angels are able to operate seeing man and woman are following Gods order for them. If the woman doesn't cover her head in the spiritual sense it is such a shame as in the natural sense she were shorn or shaven. James gives us a picture of how satan can work if we are not humble and in subjection no matter what we say from our lips. We can pretend that everything is ok in the outward appearance but the spiritual unseen realm show strife (fighting) and envy (trying to be above another) and gives opening for confusion and evil to work.

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered G2619, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
G2619 κατακαλύπτω katakaluptō
Total KJV Occurrences: 3
covered, 2
1Co_11:6 (2)
cover, 1
1Co_11:7
to cover wholly, that is, veil: - cover, hide. Strongs
Thayer Definition:
1) to cover up
2) to veil or cover one’s self

It is either wear a veil/covering or shave your head. Paul is not saying that your hair is your veil. If it is a shame to be shorn then cover/veil (katakulupto- cover wholly) your head. He is not saying saying put hair on your head or dont cut your hair. He specifically says shave which means he realizes that she already has hair on her head. He is not mentioning at this point how long her hair is. He later references that it is natural for a woman to have long hair and for a man to have short hair. He does not mention that men should shave their heads because their hair is too long and it might be seen as if they had a covering on their heads. This is not referring to the hair as being a covering. It is an external object to the body that is placed over the head.

1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover G2619 his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
(See above for same definition of G2619)

Now this gives the reasoning why man is not to cover his head. Man you see carries the authority of God as he was made in his image. He is not to put on anything that shows he is in subjection any longer. This is in regards to a veil or covering (katakalupto) as a woman wears covering completely over her head. The Jewish males wear a Yamika covering only the back of the head showing that they are always subject to God, but not a veil, turban, or hat when they worship or pray. It cannot hang down to infer subjection. Especially now that the Christian has been made free from the law and sin. He previously willingly subjected himself to disobedience and caused sin to enter in. This separated him from God and gave him a death sentence. Through one man sin entered in and through one man Jesus it was abolished by the grace of God.

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor.
Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:


1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power G1849 on her head because of the angels.
G1849 ἐξουσία exousia
Total KJV Occurrences: 103
power, 61- authority, 28- powers, 8- right, 2- authorities, 1 -jurisdiction, 1 -liberty, 1-strength, 1
Thayer Definition:
4d) a sign of the husband’s authority over his wife
4d1) the veil with which propriety required a women to cover herself
4e) the sign of regal authority, a crown

1Co 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?G177 (See Above for Definition of G177)

Paul had used various arguments to show them the impropriety of their females speaking unveiled in public. He now appeals to their natural sense of what was decent and right, according to established and acknowledged customs and habits. Albert Barnes
a woman . . . unto God--By rejecting the emblem of subjection (the head-covering), she passes at one leap in praying publicly beyond both the man and angels [BENGEL]. Jamieson, Fausset, Brown JFB

Good sound doctrine. I hope it will now be understood and followed.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

We used to be part of part of this sect. The funky thing to me is that they still believe women can't cut their hair.

My question is what happens if a woman needs to call upon the name of the Lord in a car accident and don't have her veil on?

This is nothing more than Apostolic Assembly tradition tradition, yie de die die, yie de die die...traditiuuuuuuon tradition!!!

(fiddler on the roof)

I think most see it as such now days. The thing is I do not know many in the organization that do not cut their hair. (women that is)
If they could get the GB to get rid of this tradition I think very few would show up the next service with their veil on.

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

We used to be part of part of this sect. The funky thing to me is that they still believe women can't cut their hair.

My question is what happens if a woman needs to call upon the name of the Lord in a car accident and don't have her veil on?

This is nothing more than Apostolic Assembly tradition tradition, yie de die die, yie de die die...traditiuuuuuuon tradition!!!

(fiddler on the roof)

This covering of a woman has some significance beside tradition.

Num 5:18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:


Look it up on wikipedia

For many centuries, until around 1175, Anglo-Saxon and then Anglo-Norman women, with the exception of young unmarried girls, wore veils that entirely covered their hair, and often their necks up to their chins (see wimple). Only in the Tudor period (1485), when hoods became increasingly popular, did veils of this type become less common.

In Judaism, Christianity and Islam the concept of covering the head is or was associated with propriety. All traditional depictions of the Virgin Mary, the mother of Christ, show her veiled. Veiling was a common practice with church-going women until the 1960s, and a number of very traditional churches retain the custom. The wearing of various forms of the Muslim veil has provoked controversy in the West.

Traditionally, in Christianity, women were enjoined to cover their heads in church, just as it was (and still is) customary for men to remove their hat as a sign of respect. This practice is based on 1 Corinthians 11:4-16

In many traditional Eastern Orthodox Churches, and in some very conservative Protestant churches as well, the custom continues of women covering their heads in church (or even when praying privately at home).

In the Roman Catholic Church, it was customary in most places before the 1960s for women to wear a headcovering in the form of a scarf, cap, veil or hat when entering a church. The practice now continues where it is seen as a matter of etiquette, courtesy, tradition or fashionable elegance rather than strictly of religion. Traditionalist Catholics also maintain the practice.

History of the Christian headcovering

1 Corinthians 11:4-16 contains the only reference in the New Testament to a headcovering for women and to an absence of a headcovering for men. Various early Church Fathers, such as Hermas[1], Clement of Alexandria[2] and Tertullian[3] also mentioned women's headcoverings. Early Christian art shows women wearing headcoverings.[4]

Both at that time and through the ensuing centuries, women usually wore a headcovering in public, as they still do in some Middle Eastern countries. But during the 1900s, the practice of headcovering gradually disappeared from many churches, which dropped their requirement that women cover their heads during worship services.

[edit] In Protestant churches

Among the early Protestant reformers, Martin Luther's wife, Katherine, wore a headcovering and John Knox and John Calvin both called for women to wear headcoverings.[5],[6], [7] Commentators such as Matthew Henry, A. R. Fausset and A. T. Robertson also wrote that women should wear headcoverings.

Headcovering, at least during worship services, is still promoted or required in a few denominations. Among these are some Anabaptist denominations, including the Amish, some Mennonites, and the Apostolic Christian Church; some Pentecostal churches, including Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith; and the stricter Dutch Reformed churches. Though most other Protestant denominations have no official expectation that women cover, some individuals choose to practice headcovering according to their understanding of 1 Corinthians 11.