Pre-Service Prayer in Apostolic Churches? - Page 13

theoldpaths · #**121** 07-31-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

In other words, you must be seen in the prayer room before church before you are considered to be used in any way as a volunteer. It's all about appearances! Look as I tell you and be where I tell you.

Do I hear scorning? Proverbs has a lot to say about scorners.

theoldpaths · #**122** 07-31-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron

The Young Ladies at our Church were always told by the Pastor that if they were interested in a mate, look who's in the Prayer Room!

I think that is good advice.

theoldpaths · #**123** 07-31-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Don't get me wrong. I believe in spending time in prayer before each service.

When it become "mandatory", I think sometimes people may go through the motions to get approval. I know there were times that I did years ago!

One service I had a couple come to Sunday night service that I invited. I went to where they were sitting to welcome them and make them feel comfortable. Suddenly, I realized that I wasn't in the prayer room where I was expected to be. I had to excuse myself and go to the prayer room in case the pastor noticed that I wasn't there!

Why would a Pastor ask that all the born again saints in his church come to pre-service prayer? There must be a purpose. There must be a reason. In Acts 2 they were ALL in one accord and in one place. If Jesus could get them ALL to be in one place and in one accord, then the leaders in the NT church can too.

What did Paul have to say about those who were contentious and wanted to resist and rebel and not obey?

1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

theoldpaths · #**124** 07-31-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

I've seen pre-service prayer meeting turn into a chest beating contest among men entirely too many times. Brother So and So gets a little loud and then Brother Whathisface decides to pray louder. Soon it turns into a shouting match and everyone walks away feeling like they've "touched God". Yeah right! No thanks! I tried the prayer rooms and found that praying at my pew was much better. I don't come to church to compete with anyone on getting in touch with the Lord.

In Acts they were able to pray together...

Act 12:5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

Act 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.

If you are giving the Lord your attention and are spending time with Him talking with Him, then who cares what anyone else is doing? Can we not enter into our own prayer closet and close out what is happening around us? How would our wife feel if we initiated a conversation with her and then not give her our attention, but started looking around at what everyone else is doing?

If they could do it in Acts in the early church, then we can do it too in the same church. IF something is out of order, then perhaps it needs to be brought to the attention of the Pastor and He needs to do something about it.

However if God is touching someone and they get emotional and want to respond back to Him in an emotional way, I have no problem with that. I understand that in one prayer meeting some could be just praying, some could be offering up supplications, some could be interceding and groaning, some could be weeping, and some could even be laughing; etc.

Just some thoughts.

God bless.

theoldpaths · #**125** 07-31-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

If you wait until you get to church to crucify your flesh and get your flesh under subjection, you are completely wasting your time.

Are you saying that if one doesn't have their flesh crucified and under subjection, that they should just not pray and do nothing and go into the service with their heavy flesh warring against their spirit and because their flesh is not under subjection, to just let their flesh have its own way?

I don't think that would be good for a born again apostolic saint.

theoldpaths · #**126** 07-31-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

You are so right about reading the Word, Brother. I love reading my Bible. I get more out of that than just about anything else I do as part of this walk. I like prayer because I get to be honest with God about my thoughts and feelings. I like worship because I get to show Him how great I think He is. But I like reading His Word best because it shows me how it is God thinks.

Amen to that Rico.

theoldpaths · #**127** 07-31-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

The High Priest in the Old Testament was a forerunner of Christ - not of ourselves. Christ entered ONCE into the Holy Place (Hebrews 9:22-28). That the priest had to prepare himself indicates that Christ too lived a life which prepared Him (a sinless life). The pattern and activity of the High Priest is not one that we are intended to follow.

Amen - Christ is our high-priest! And we are priests.

Quote:

Though we are intended to follow Christ, there is an important difference between Christ Himself and His followers. The angry old ladies who scurry about gossiping and slandering the saints that fail to measure up to their standard of appearances by making a demostration in the prayer room are certainly not the paragons of virtue that they imagine themselves to be.

Perhaps those ladies repented at the beginning of their prayer and so perhaps their "demonstration" is them actually touching and getting touched by God.

Quote:

The "holy sacrifices" that we as "lively stones" and "a spiritual house," and "an holy priesthood..." are seen offered up not only in our regular church services, but throughout the life of a dedicated believer.

To try and say that there is some sort of biblical mandate for "mandatory pre-service prayer" is to add to the Bible itself and would probably make all of one's prayers of no effect due to the sin of presumption (1 Peter 2:10-22).

Agreed. We bring the needs of others and ourselves in our own personal prayer time in our closet. But we can also bring the needs of the church service to God in prayer before service as well. Just like the apostles, we can ALL be in accord and in one place.

Isn't it interesting that there is no example of a church service in the NT - how it should be done, what if any order, etc? I wonder why that is? Perhaps because there are things to be learned from the OT. Paul said in one place that the things that were written aforetime were written for OUR learning now in the NT.

Quote:

And yes - if you were to make a list of the things that happen in a typical Pentecostal church service and compared it to the Bible, you will find that most of the things that happen are indeed "traditions" as opposed to Biblical practices in and of themselves. Now, this doesn't make the "traditions" wrong, but we should be clear and not reach to try and stretch the Bible over ourselves like a fat jogger does with his lycra.

If you feel that pre-service prayer has absolutely NO benefit, NO effect and NO impact at all on a church service, then you are free to do as you will.

Having experienced both ways, I can definitely tell you that pre-service prayer has made a difference for me and others and for the Pastor as well.

Praxeas · #**128** 07-31-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

I did teach a little about the OT example on page 3 of this thread.

That was not "preservice prayer" that was the the law about the high priest entering into the Holy place. In the NT Jesus entered into there once and for all and as a result we can all have boldness to do the same. My question is where does the bible say we have to have an hour or so prayer just before the service actually starts? If it is to get right with God then something is amiss...when we pray we pray FOR the service, not because we need to get right with God in order to enter His presence. Where in the bible is it taught this is the case? Taking something from the OT and making a type out of it without any teaching from scriptures to support it is spiritualizing text to support a non biblical doctrine particularly in the instance of making it mandatory.

Praxeas · #**129** 07-31-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

As I stated in an earlier post, the LORD in the OT mandated that the high priest do very specific things BEFORE he was ready to hear God's word in the Holy of Holies where he entered once a year; I wonder why that was?

to make him ritually pure. In the NT we don't need to pray an hour to become clean.

Rico · #**130** 07-31-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

Are you saying that if one doesn't have their flesh crucified and under subjection, that they should just not pray and do nothing and go into the service with their heavy flesh warring against their spirit and because their flesh is not under subjection, to just let their flesh have its own way?

I don't think that would be good for a born again apostolic saint.

The point was that we shouldn't wait until just before church to get our flesh under subjection. We're supposed to live with our flesh under subjection. Make sense now?