I thought this to be a good summary of some of the packaging or trappings that often are a barrier to authentic faith/disipleship
Abuses and elitism in ministry, coupled with a “carrot and stick” approach to holiness that many find legalistic, manipulative, and repressive
The excesses of Word Faith teachings (health and wealth, prosperity doctrine) which clash with the emerging generations’ concern for a biblical approach to justice and ministry with the poor
Authoritarianism and hierarchical leadership structures that exist more to control people than to equip the saints for works of service
An approach to spiritual formation (discipleship) that depends on crisis events – whether at “the altar” in a church service, or in a large conference setting – but either neglects or deliberately belittles other means of spiritual maturation (ie. spiritual disciplines)
I just read through this thread and have enjoyed the discussion.
I identify with all points you've addressed here Keith as being hindrances or barriers to TRUE discipleship. I've been of the opinion for a while now that true discipleship is lacking in the church as a whole. The lack of knowledge on doctrine and core, fundamental truths is surprising when you talk to people in churches. It's a serious pressing need and it's urgent, IMO.
IMO, we've made the mistake of assuming that Sunday school has filled this void and in many cases it simply hasn't.
I couldn't agree more on the crisis events. I agree that "praying through" at an altar of prayer before God is important to spiritual success, however, I've heard preachers preach that as the end all be all and in most cases that does cause neglect to spiritual maturation.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
More recently I have thought of where do I fit in the current church spectrum/world.
I have always liked the word Neoor New Pentecostal in that I hold strongly to Pentecostal distinctives such as Faith, Baptism, Receiving the Holy Ghost, the Practice of Spiritual gifts, passionate worship.
But I think that other cultural practices are often barriers for people to experience the former without the latter being required.
But I read an online article from a site that tends towards a Missional/Post Modern outlook. I noticed the frequency of a term called Post Pentecostal, I wonder if this is something others here have heard, thought about, agree with or never heard of.
Again Post-Pentecostal is having those pentecostal distinctives without the trappings or packaging of traditional Pentecostalism.
I don't think what you are describing is really "Post Pentecostal" because "Pentecostal" is usually associated with the things that he describe yourself as holding to.
"Post neo-Pharisee" maybe? Though that sounds too harsh and judgmental to me, it is a phrase I hear used quite a bit.
But why the need for a tag at all? Why not, "Christian?"
Isaiah 65:5 is interesting here (the I am holier than thou... verse), continuing on down to Isaiah 65:15 we read that the LORD will give "His servants another name."
Once God has "killed" those who are "holier than thou" He will rename those that remain.
I don't think what you are describing is really "Post Pentecostal" because "Pentecostal" is usually associated with the things that he describe yourself as holding to.
"Post neo-Pharisee" maybe? Though that sounds too harsh and judgmental to me, it is a phrase I hear used quite a bit.
But why the need for a tag at all? Why not, "Christian?"
Isaiah 65:5 is interesting here (the I am holier than thou... verse), continuing on down to Isaiah 65:15 we read that the LORD will give "His servants another name."
Once God has "killed" those who are "holier than thou" He will rename those that remain.
I actually like that idea and it is what I prefer to call myself. I think "follower of Christ" should pretty much cover it.
More recently I have thought of where do I fit in the current church spectrum/world.
I have always liked the word Neoor New Pentecostal in that I hold strongly to Pentecostal distinctives such as Faith, Baptism, Receiving the Holy Ghost, the Practice of Spiritual gifts, passionate worship.
But I think that other cultural practices are often barriers for people to experience the former without the latter being required.
But I read an online article from a site that tends towards a Missional/Post Modern outlook. I noticed the frequency of a term called Post Pentecostal, I wonder if this is something others here have heard, thought about, agree with or never heard of.
Again Post-Pentecostal is having those pentecostal distinctives without the trappings or packaging of traditional Pentecostalism.
Very dangerous ground...Keith...very dangeous and ominous to me...and foolish...
Very dangerous ground...Keith...very dangeous and ominous to me...and foolish...
That's probably what the other disciples said to Peter when he stepped out of the boat to walk toward Jesus.............
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
It's the trail the Apostles blazed that's been strewn with heavy boulders to cause folks to stumble. Removing the boulders is a good thing.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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