New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

[Esaias]

New doctrine?

(insert Ed McMahon laughter here)

One is forgiven when repentance is complete - which includes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

All this hair splitting... still....going on....

Just repent, get baptised, get the Holy Ghost, live holy, be a living witness, and don't sweat the small stuff like 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin'.

[shag]

" One is forgiven when repentance is complete - which includes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ"


So then anybody and everybody that begs for forgiveness from God, and dedicates loyalty to letting Jesus Christ rule their hearts and minds, but hasn't been baptised by someone else that says ..."in Jesus name" or "in the name of Jesus Christ", while baptising them, has not been forgiven? That's a lotttttttta people.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

" One is forgiven when repentance is complete - which includes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ"


So then anybody and everybody that begs for forgiveness from God, and dedicates loyalty to letting Jesus Christ rule their hearts and minds, but hasn't been baptised by someone else that says ..."in Jesus name" or "in the name of Jesus Christ", while baptising them, has not been forgiven? That's a lotttttttta people.

hmmm... I think I remember reading something about 'wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat...'

But aside from that...are you saying that 'begging forgiveness from God and dedicating loyalty to letting Jesus Christ rule their hearts and minds' must necessarily result in forgiveness?

Oh, another thing... if a person dedicates themself to Jesus Christ to letting him rule their heart and mind... wouldn't they as a matter of course GET BAPTISED IN HIS NAME?

Oh yeah... one more thing... I never said anything about anybody being 'baptised by somebody else.... while saying' ANYTHING.

[Esaias]

I think the number one problem people have in understanding this is the fact that waaaaaay too often we ALL try to separate 'repentance' from baptism. We have made repentance into a ritual in itself - a specific set of actions, like 'coming forward', or 'saying this prayer', or 'weeping at the altar', or some other such ritualised event, rather than viewing 'repentance' as a summation of the individual turning from a vain life of unbelief and rebellion to one of faithful obedience.

I don't see anywhere in the Scripture where the apostles made such a separation, or treated of repentance as a distinct, separate, STEP or EVENT in a person's life to the extent we do today.

I don't think anyone in the first century would have thought 'okay, I repented, now what? Get baptised?' Repentance seemed to mean simply dropping whatever life one had, and replacing it with being a follower of Christ.

As such, repentance BEGINS with the DECISION to follow Christ and forsake sin and vanity, and culminates in the new birth.

All this desire to find some example of a person who 'repented' and then somehow died on the way to the baptistry seems silly to me.

Repent AND BE BAPTISED... for the remission of sins.

The two are conjoined.

Look at Paul's conversion... he follows the same pattern, and preached the same pattern, as was found throughout Acts. And thus is normative 'conversion' according to the Scripture.

So rather than trying to determine 'was I forgiven before I was baptised, when I was baptised, after I was baptised, when I first repented... when exactly DID I first repent? A trip to the altar? When I decided to go to the altar but before I actually physically moved forward?' etc etc... perhaps we should simply ask 'Does my conversion match the Biblical norm? Did I repent? Was I baptised? Am I filled with the Holy Ghost? Am I overcoming the devil, the flesh, and the world? Am I walking in faith, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord?'

Maybe, if we quit straining out the gnats we will not swallow the camel.

A difficult thing sometimes, but perhaps needed.

[Saul Stephen]

Repentance, is the most serious moment of the repentant life. it is both personal and shareable only with God. yes, honesty is needed here most certainly. remember repentance is not the step of, nor just a part of, but, the movement towards redemption. it is needed, but the intent must be proven in baptism. In baptism then, we truly surrender and die, entering into the body of Christ our Lord, where! we all know we rise in the likeness of his resurrection. life [blood], is found here in Christ. now, as to the third step[ why so named?], The gift! and that is just that, we have nothing to do with this, just receive it and be most thankful. regardless of all this talk about one, two or three steps, in all reality is one single act of redemption plan of salvation. many are baptized after having been filled with his spirit. some are filled, sitting in their seat, with his spirit. seemly in no set order. even though I see the importance of baptism , and know the new life is found in this watery grave, sometimes god reminds me that it is not in the order sometimes, but in the whole singular act. I am convinced that we need only comply, repent, and be baptized, and receive his gift, and be thankful. I desire to see everyone saved, and Acts 2:38. is the way.

[Saul Stephen]

If the repentant, is truly sincere, truly convicted of their sins, then and only then, a true request is made, lord, forgive me. now, consider this, can we speak for God? yes, by the word of God. Acts 2:38. repentance [repent]] statement of choice only. you must be sincere here, and if so, then God responds in like manner. In baptism, and by the power of his blood, washes away, every sin. to say we are forgiven in repentance, would be like walking away from a woman in labor, stating the child was born in the evidence of delivery pains, and not when having emerged from the womb. Do not remove the seeker from any part of delivery, as the wholeness of redemption's plan, is wondrously observed in the voice of the new life [in tongues]. regardless of everyone's personal beliefs, salvation is a singular act of his grace. thank God, that the Lambs movement from the cross to the throne, was completed. not interrupted by those who seek to only have the cross, or maybe just the grave, mount of olive experience, or an upper room one. It is by faith, in this apostolic message, that my soul continues to follow him, you see, if I do not continue to be sincere and dedicated to it, all of the truth applied in the past years of my life is in vane, because I did not continue the journey. come walk with me, I am not judgmental, you see, we are both a work in progress.

[Sam]

There are some problems with the physical/natural birth analogy as presented by some:

1. Repentance is the same as insemination when the seed is planted and new life begins
2. Water baptism is the same as the child emerging from the womb as the water spills
3. Speaking with tongues is the voice of the newborn and it is a still birth without tongues


If we are pro-life we believe that life begins at conception. A person who receives the Word/seed and begins new life is a child of God whether there is a miscarriage or abortion or not. This makes everyone who has repented to be a child of God. Some preachers refer to them as children "in the womb of the church." We celebrate our "unborn" we talk to them, we brag about them, we name them, we show off pictures of them (sonograms). If they are "unborn children" are they not part of the family of God and will they not be raptured along with the rest of the family?

Multitudes of people have been baptized in the Spirit (spoke with tongues) but have never yet been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. With the current analogy, these folks are breathing and crying on their own but have not even left the womb yet. What kind of creatures are they--aquatic?
Then we have those who have been baptized "properly" but have never been baptized in the Spirit (spoken with tongues or cried or breathed). These are considered still born because they have no life. Yet we address them as "brother" or "sister" and fellowship them. What are we doing --playing with a bunch of "dead babies"? How long before these little corpses decay and have to be put away somewhere?

[mizpeh]

Esaias, if you are the same Esaias who use to post here but left, good to see you back. If not, welcome, you have acquired a name that brings back fond memories both here on AFF, GNC, and NFCF.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Esaias, if you are the same Esaias who use to post here but left, good to see you back. If not, welcome, you have acquired a name that brings back fond memories both here on AFF, GNC, and NFCF.

Why thank you! Yes, I'm back!