Anyone Here Believe In Soul Sleep?

[Michael The Disciple]

Blume said:

But scripture does not state soul sleep anywhere in plain terms.

Oh really?

13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1 Thess. 4:13

Plain as day until one tries to change it to say "them whose bodies have fallen asleep". Wrong, wrong, wrong!

He is talking to them about their loved ones NOT THEIR LOVED ONES DEAD BODIES. Once that is understood the blinders are removed.

Mblume

See? You do not even realize the POINT of that message. And what concerns me is that only those who do not want to hear it out make those statements.

Coming in local judgment is the LEAST issue of Kingdom Eschatology. The CONCERN is where it puts the church and Christ NOW.

The POINT is more PRACTICAL than any dispensationalist can ever get. It is that NOW is the KINGDOM, and all that was required fro Jesus to sit on the throne and David and rule in the Kingdom HAS BEEN DONE. He sits NOW. God is not working with Israel and the church at the same time. God is not going to turn to Israel after the church is raptured. the church is not going to rule in any millennium later. IT IS NOW NOW NOW, as well as later. Israel must come to GOD NOW. No chance after the rapture.

And if the church got this revelation, they would realize there is far more to do NOW, that they are actually throwing off into the future while we twiddle our thumbs now, singing, Hold the Fort.

I do not believe God will save anyone in this dispensation after the rapture. That is pretribulationism. The partial preterist theory is a warmed over version of IT.

Jesus could come at any time now. Yep same old doctrine just a different version of it.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Oh really?

13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1 Thess. 4:13

Plain as day until one tries to change it to say "them whose bodies have fallen asleep". Wrong, wrong, wrong!

He is talking to them about their loved ones NOT THEIR LOVED ONES DEAD BODIES. Once that is understood the blinders are removed.

Show me where the SOUL is said to sleep. That is all I ask. Show me that Paul was not saying absence from the biody awards presence with the Lord.

I do not believe God will save anyone in this dispensation after the rapture. That is pretribulationism. The partial preterist theory is a warmed over version of IT.

Jesus could come at any time now. Yep same old doctrine just a different version of it.

Tell that to a dispie.

Still not getting the difference. Being saved after the dispensation we're in and living NOW in the ONLY Kingdom there will ever be on earth is a HUGE difference.

Jesus being on the throne of David now, and us being the New Jerusalem now, and no physical kingdom ever coming, we are the trees of life alongside the River in Rev 22, and we rule over cities NOW, have gigantic implications. But that sounds too gigantic a difference for some folks to consider, let alone mention in describing our beliefs.

[ronharvey]

It is amazing how many people are right on this thread.

I think every one has good points and it is very easy to see how their point of view easly colours their overall understanding of the Scriptures as well as all aspects of life.

What is esp interesting is those who believe "soul sleep" is not important are the ones who write these long drawn out "Stop talking about it" brow beating posts telling me and others how worthless the subject matter is and that only their point of view has any merit to the Christian's understanding of this life and the hereafter.

When I or others agree that it is a secondary issue to Acts 2:38 but we would like to at least hear preachers address the issue, bam! Here come the "Stop talking about it" brow beating posts telling me and others how worthless the subject matter is and that only their point of view has any merit to the Christian's understanding of this life and the hereafter.

And, I am sure this post will be no different.

Hey, here is an idea, lets actually study the issue beginning at Genesis and progress through the bible till we come to the NT and then view it in light of all that was known before?

Oh, thats right, as Einstein's convoluted math brought out all the fantasy Islands in science, so when people arrive at the New Testament they think all the rest is done away with.

Ron

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by ronharvey

Here come the "Stop talking about it" brow beating posts telling me and others how worthless the subject matter is and that only their point of view has any merit to the Christian's understanding of this life and the hereafter.

...as if. I never said my view is the only one that has merit. Futuristic eschatology has merit. It urges folks to live right.

Try again.

If ya cannot take the heat...

I stand on the thought that soul sleep is a useless issue to debate. Same with annihilation of the wicked. All these useless beliefs. Believe, them, fine. But to discuss them so much?

And I have been exiting this thread for some time now. You keep responding and speaking to me then do not blame me for posting more although I see no point in the issue, itself. Notice I have been simply claiming its uselessness in contrast to useful issues that have been compared by you guys, and not attempting to disprove it as I did before?

So it always is with adherents to useless issues, though.

Outta here, finally.

Love y'all, but there could be better things to look for a church about...

And I am amazed you take this personally, since it has no bearing on your intelligence. Funny how people think disagreement is an insult to one's intelligence. You're probably smart guys. I just disagree with your priorities, is all.

[ronharvey]

Originally Posted by mfblume

...as if. I never said my view is the only one that has merit.

Try again.

If ya cannot take the heat...

I stand on the thought that soul sleep is a useless issue to debate. Same with annihilation of the wicked. All these useless beliefs. Believe, them, fine. But to discuss them so much?

And I have been exiting this thread for some time now. You keep responding and speaking to me then do not blame me for posting more although I see no point in the issue, itself. Notice I have been simply claiming its uselessness in contrast to useful issues that have been compared by you guys, and not attempting to disprove it as I did before?

So it always is with adherents to useless issues, though.

Outta here, finally.

Love y'all, but there could be better things to look for a church about...

Thats funny, I wasn't talking: to YOU. But you think I am.

I did not "respond" to YOU: but YOU thought I did.

I know how to press the quote button: but I did not.

It was an open post, lest you misunderstand, you are NOT the only poster here (Although your avatar is cutest).

If I can't take the heat? Son, I was born again in the Fires of Debate and took on whole debate teams (Arlington Baptist College, Arlington, Texas).

My Pastor in La Habra, Ca was accused of feeding us blood because the questions we asked in C.S.T.I was upsetting the pastors and making their saints THINK.

You think, this has been a debate? Glady, this has not even generated enough heat to make a jumping bean flinch! :-)

Don't be so self conscience that you feel that when I post an open message it is to you: It is to everyone.

Ron

P.s. "as if. I never said my view is the only one that has merit."

The Mormons don't put out tracts saying everyone else is wrong either, only tracts saying they are the only ones that are right.

To defend themselves they point to the "We don't put out tracts saying anyone is wrong" (while beating their chests).
The fact they say they are right says every one else is wrong.

[DerechHashem]

Bump

[DerechHashem]

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [koimaō], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Thesselonians 4:13

Is talking about those who "died".

See the rest of the story:

For if we believe that Jesus died [apothnēskō] and rose again, even so them also which sleep [koimaō] in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Thesselonians 4:14

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep [koimaō]. 1Thesselonians 4:15

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead [apothnēskō] in Christ shall rise first: 1Thesselonians 4:16

Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Thesselonians 4:17

Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1Thesselonians 4:18

Koimaō; Greek: From Keimai; Greek: To die, to lie, of one buried.

Apothnēskō; Greek: From Thnēskō; Greek: To die, to be dead, of the natural death of man, of the violent death of man or animals, to perish by means of something.

He is speaking of loved ones who physically died in Christ, pretty simple when the rest of the story is put into context.

Blessings all.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by ronharvey

It is amazing how many people are right on this thread.

I think every one has good points and it is very easy to see how their point of view easly colours their overall understanding of the Scriptures as well as all aspects of life.

What is esp interesting is those who believe "soul sleep" is not important are the ones who write these long drawn out "Stop talking about it" brow beating posts telling me and others how worthless the subject matter is and that only their point of view has any merit to the Christian's understanding of this life and the hereafter.

When I or others agree that it is a secondary issue to Acts 2:38 but we would like to at least hear preachers address the issue, bam! Here come the "Stop talking about it" brow beating posts telling me and others how worthless the subject matter is and that only their point of view has any merit to the Christian's understanding of this life and the hereafter.

And, I am sure this post will be no different.

Hey, here is an idea, lets actually study the issue beginning at Genesis and progress through the bible till we come to the NT and then view it in light of all that was known before?

Oh, thats right, as Einstein's convoluted math brought out all the fantasy Islands in science, so when people arrive at the New Testament they think all the rest is done away with.

Ron

I agree Ron, Tithing is a secondary subject to Acts 2:38 and any other doctrine in all the churches of America. With the amount of time spent on the topic in each service while lifting the offerings. I would gather that a larger portion of time is spent on the topic of tithing in any church more than any other single topic. So to use the relevance angle to move away from topics such as soul sleep, shut up and stop writing threads and sermons on the powerhouse topic of tithing.

What God with any sense of Mercy would predestine a soul to take on humanity in any time related period before an other. Then throw one soul in hell thousands of years before another soul is brought forward with a human form? What does the devil have to fear if he already in hell? How did he leave the flames of hell to stand on the mount with Christ to temp him? Are we to preach a doctrine that souls in hell can leave to temp and torment Christians today? Are the souls that are lost when they die, then turned into demons? I think that should be the next wacked out doctrine that is started. Maybe I should be the author of the next stupid doctrine...

I believe the soul sleeps until the day Christ quickens those that are asleep or remain that are alive...

[DerechHashem]

Originally Posted by Neck

I agree Ron, Tithing is a secondary subject to Acts 2:38 and any other doctrine in all the churches of America. With the amount of time spent on the topic in each service while lifting the offerings. I would gather that a larger portion of time is spent on the topic of tithing in any church more than any other single topic. So to use the relevance angle to move away from topics such as soul sleep, shut up and stop writing threads and sermons on the powerhouse topic of tithing.

What God with any sense of Mercy would predestine a soul to take on humanity in any time related period before an other. Then throw one soul in hell thousands of years before another soul is brought forward with a human form? What does the devil have to fear if he already in hell? How did he leave the flames of hell to stand on the mount with Christ to temp him? Are we to preach a doctrine that souls in hell can leave to temp and torment Christians today? Are the souls that are lost when they die, then turned into demons? I think that should be the next wacked out doctrine that is started. Maybe I should be the author of the next stupid doctrine...

I believe the soul sleeps until the day Christ quickens those that are asleep or remain that are alive...

I believe I sleep including my dust, until that quickening.

[pastorrush]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. With the story that Jesus told about the rich man and Lazarus the bible has refuted soul sleeping. The soul is eternal it never sleeps.