Paganism in Christianity

[TCSQ]

Originally Posted by mfblume

We cannot ascertain the purity of a term due to the root word from which it is derived. Imagine doing that in English!

Okay but time out time out! There obviously is much more at stake here than the definition of a Hebrew word! What is the source of agitation in back of things in this discussion. Is someone contending for something OTHER than the definition or source of a WORD?

I mean imagine a discussion where all of a sudden the use of the word Baptistry is under fire because it does not exist in the Koine Greek, even though it IS the source of the word. The concept of a PLACE to BAPTIZO certainly would bring the word under the covering of a Biblical concept and word. If someone was really up in arms over the word baptistry and where and when it originated ....I would then be pretty sure that THAT was not the real issue, something else was.
And thats whay I feel here...what is the real ISSUE in back of this?


'Splain it to me.....

Okay time out is over

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by TCSQ

Well I have no problem with using vocabulary common to the language the Bible was written in. Certainly am not embracing promoting or condoning what you label Jewish (and by the way you put "JEWISH" in quotes ...does that imply that something being JEWISH makes it unnaceptable to be considered?)

Not at all. Please, reread what I said:

Where—again—do we find Shekinah readily used? In Jewish mysticism...think about it..."JEWISH" mysticism.... So why do you find Hebrew influence in that word? Because it derives from JEWISH mystics.

I used the quotes to draw attention to the source being Jewish. That's the same reason I used the UPPER case word "JEWISH".

[TCSQ]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Not at all. Please, reread what I said:



I used the quotes to draw attention to the source being Jewish. That's the same reason I used the UPPER case word "JEWISH".

I see, but PLEASE.... I am totally at a loss on this thing now. Is there some contention that goes beyond the meaning or origin of a word? I mean is someone contending for Personhood of the Shekinah (Regardless of its origin now, I mean, I went on the net looking about shekinah its origin and definition and the first page I came to was this....

http://shekinah.elysiumgates.com/

Is THIS what all the uproar is about or is it something else. I know that the air is a little charged over this subject and certainly must be something alot more than the correct or incorrect definition or origin of a WORD.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TCSQ

Okay but time out time out! There obviously is much more at stake here than the definition of a Hebrew word! What is the source of agitation in back of things in this discussion. Is someone contending for something OTHER than the definition or source of a WORD?

It is just that Jewish people who adhere to kaballah insist the word refers to a feminine deity. These are Jews who are sincere and fully scholarly who claim this. This is their religion. I am sure they did their homework. And so when blatant mystics claim something after having done homework, that smacks against the very tenets we believe in and hold dear (regarding One God), and oneness folks begin using their mystical terms, it gives rise to concern!

I mean imagine a discussion where all of a sudden the use of the word Baptistry is under fire because it does not exist in the Koine Greek, even though it IS the source of the word. The concept of a PLACE to BAPTIZO certainly would bring the word under the covering of a Biblical concept and word. If someone was really up in arms over the word baptistry and where and when it originated ....I would then be pretty sure that THAT was not the real issue, something else was.
And thats whay I feel here...what is the real ISSUE in back of this?

'Splain it to me.....

Okay time out is over

The example of BAPTISTRY does not jive, since no mystic of whom we are aware uses it in their writings and "holy" (or rather "unholy") books to speak of something that smacks against the precious truths of which God has been gracious to give us.

Consider something more close to the sort of thing we are dealing with, such as "satanism". We believe there is a satan, and our Bibles refer to him, and there is nothing wrong with knowing a satan exists. But never in God's good earth would we consider saying our belief in satan is akin to satanism.

Just as "satanism" is not a good description of our belief while not found in our bibles although the root word is found there, "shekinah" is not a good term to use to describe something holy when it is not found in the bible and is blatantly used in occultic groups, although the root word is found in our bibles.

[TCSQ]

[QUOTE=mfblume;586243]It is just that Jewish people who adhere to kaballah insist the word refers to a feminine deity. These are Jews who are sincere and fully scholarly who claim this. This is their religion. I am sure they did their homework. And so when blatant mystics claim something after having done homework, that smacks against the very tenets we believe in and hold dear (regarding One God), and oneness folks begin using their mystical terms, it gives rise to concern!



The example of BAPTISTRY does not jive, since no mystic of whom we are aware uses it in their writings and "holy" (or rather "unholy") books to speak of something that smacks against the precious truths of which God has been gracious to give us.

Consider something more close to the sort of thing we are dealing with, such as "satanism". We believe there is a satan, and our Bibles refer to him, and there is nothing wrong with knowing a satan exists. But never in God's good earth would we consider saying our belief in satan is akin to satanism.


GOTCHA! I hope it is clear that that is NOT what I was posting. Merely giving definitions of words and their origins certainly NOT contending for a another deity. As I am sure I mentioned in my first post on this thread.

Anyway okay now I see thanks for clarifying that for me.

[U376977]

Originally Posted by TCSQ

I see, but PLEASE.... I am totally at a loss on this thing now. Is there some contention that goes beyond the meaning or origin of a word? I mean is someone contending for Personhood of the Shekinah (Regardless of its origin now, I mean, I went on the net looking about shekinah its origin and definition and the first page I came to was this....

http://shekinah.elysiumgates.com/

Is THIS what all the uproar is about or is it something else. I know that the air is a little charged over this subject and certainly must be something alot more than the correct or incorrect definition or origin of a WORD.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????

I think it got thrown into the mix on this thread by someone trying to justify pagan practice by saying we accept the use of the word "shekinah." And that the word is extra biblical. Then someone brought up that it is JEWISH for female deity.

I have never read that---I have not read a lot of Kabblah---

But there is a branch known as QUABBLAH. They are more into the mystic, and that is the branch that the Madonna types gravitate toward.

In the Kabblah I have read--the shekinah is related to the female aspect of the nature of God. They teach that God made Adam in his own image MALE AND FEMALE, Therefore God has a female nature as well as the masculine.

That makes perfect sense to me--though I would not carry it too far. Many times types and shadows can break down if not properly applied.

For example, water can be a type of "blessing." But there are scriptures that would type it out as being a "curse."

[tv1a]

Sam, where do you find all this stuff? Are you a pack rat or have you scanned all this stuff into your computer?

[tv1a]

Steeples are similar in design to the altars Jezebel and company errected. The Washington Monument is similar to the altars of Baal.

Originally Posted by Revelationist

Oh, the list goes on and on with this one.

Steeples on the church? Yes... from pagan temples of the fertility god.

Shekhina... oh how we like to use that word.. the Shekhina Glory of God was really in this place tonight... did you know that word is not even in the Bible? Where did it come from? Jewish Mysticism. Believe me, just because I put the word Jewish in front of it, doesn't change the fact that it's mysticism. Shekhina was the mother of God. Yep..

Sunday is Sun God worship.. the sabath was really on Saterday.

From Friday to Sunday is not three days for the resutection.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by U376977

I have never read that---I have not read a lot of Kabblah---

But there is a branch known as QUABBLAH. They are more into the mystic, and that is the branch that the Madonna types gravitate toward.

The group that Madonna's in also consider themselves Kabbalist, though I've read where Kabbalist Rabbis reject them as being such.

Kabbalah has several alternative spellings such as: Cabala, Cabalah, Cabbala, Cabbalah, Kabala, Kabalah, Kabbala, Qabala, Qabalah.

[U376977]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

The group that Madonna's in also consider themselves Kabbalist, though I've read where Kabbalist Rabbis reject them as being such.

Kabbalah has several alternative spellings such as: Cabala, Cabalah, Cabbala, Cabbalah, Kabala, Kabalah, Kabbala, Qabala, Qabalah.

You are correct. 100%. Perhaps I did not make myself clear though. Some Kabbalahlist disassociate themeselves with the "mystic" element of Kabblah by making the distinction by spelling with the "Q" Quabblah. Quabbalah, is labeled by them as being bordering in satanic. These are the quabbalahists who recite the "letters" of the hebrew as though they have magical powers....that recite the various names of God, like the 42 letter name and 72letter name...and believe that these names have special power. When I was studying the 72 letter name I found dozens of sites that could be considered occultic...but that does not take from the truth that is in Kabbalah.