Ray Boltz????

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Somewhat of a Catch-22....

One must already believe the Bible to be authoritative, before one can believe the Bible's CLAIM to be authoritative

I heard a preacher say one time, he doesn't preach sin from his perspective rather it is the bible that preaches sin.

...your comment indicates that you get the point.

[mfblume]

I believe the church of recent decades, and perhaps centuries, has not delved into the truths of Gal 5, and perhaps this truth needs to be recovered. I deeply desire to fully understand this issue Paul mentioned here:

Gal 5:16 KJV This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Paul did not struggle daily with sin. Many consider 1 Cor 15:31 to be indication Paul struggled with sin. That is not true. The struggle was physical persecutions wherein he was physically threatened with death every day. Paul mentions being in jeopardy in verse 30 and fighting with beasts of Ephesus in verse 32. Nothing is mentioned about sin there.

And then Romans 7's struggle is often misunderstood as saying Paul never ceased this struggle, when in actuality Paul was dealing with his past struggle that he learned to overcome. Romans 7:6 shows us that there is more to it than knowing we must serve God.

Rom 7:6 KJV But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

It is HOW we serve God that is the real issue. And there are two manners, one of which is wrong and was mentioned by Paul throughout Romans 7:7-19, and it is called the oldness of the letter. Paul learned through that past ordeal how to correctly deal with this struggle, and that is through the newness of the Spirit. This is seen to only be a past struggle with Paul according to the last verse of chapter 7 and the first two verses of chapter 8 read together.

Rom 7:25-8:2 KJV I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul thanked God that God would deliver Him from that struggle, and it is through ceasing to serve God through oldness of the letter and instead through newness of the Spirit, so he said we must walk after the Spirit.

I have not arrived, but things are getting definitely much better. There is a lot to this. Michael the Disciple has some good thoughts about this as well. But folks, if Paul said we can walk after the Spirit, then we can. And if he said walking after the Spirit causes us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, then we can cease this struggle. I believe, again, these truths have been abandoned for quite some time, possibly since the first century! But they are there. It takes some time to renew our minds to these truths. Many are delving into this at the present. And I think we've come to the church's greatest hour!

As long as we walk after the Spirit, we will not sin. As soon as such a walk stops, then sin is right there.

[Jack Shephard]

I don't think the HG will kill someones temptations by itself. I am not saying it doesn't have the power to though. It can be attributed to one hold on to an issue, no matter the issue. I know people freed from all sorts of things and I know people that can not get delivered from a bad attitude. Being or thinking one is gay and acting on it is two different things. Though the HG is powerful enough to deal with and destroy anything it will not destroy what one is not willing to give up.

God is soverign and will give His spirit to whomever He wants. I have heard for years things like "if you have marriage issues pray til you talk in tongues and that will take care of it" and the same with finance issues. I am being honest and saying there were issues that I faced that I would talk in tongues over for hours and still deal with them, but until I heard teaching about dealing with these issues and how to #1 realizing failure is normal, but God's grace gives us the ability to get over these things and #2 that we can only fight over things that are close to us and that one can not get ride of issues if they are still holding on and fighting them in their flesh.

This is the reason couple can sit through a HG shockamoo service, dance and fall out in the spirit and still go home and throw dishes and telephones at one another. Divorce in the church is as high as out of the church which shows there is a thin line between the churched and unchurched at times. The HG make a difference in ones life but if the person doesn't allow the HG to fully work then the HG will not destroy all it can due the our hands holding on to issues. The HG is a gentleman and will not over step its welcome boundaries..IMO

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This is the reason couple can sit through a HG shockamoo service, dance and fall out in the spirit and still go home and throw dishes and telephones at one another. Divorce in the church is as high as out of the church which shows there is a thin line between the churched and unchurched at times. The HG make a difference in ones life but if the person doesn't allow the HG to fully work then the HG will not destroy all it can due the our hands holding on to issues. The HG is a gentleman and will not over step its welcome boundaries..IMO

I had someone tell me that the reason I left the UPC (like 18 months ago, BTW) and changed my views (I believe they used backslid) was simply so that I could get a divorce now.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I had someone tell me that the reason I left the UPC (like 18 months ago, BTW) and changed my views (I believe they used backslid) was simply so that I could get a divorce now.

Sometimes people can be so insensitive, Mich ....

They're clueless .... ridiculous conspiracy theory, that's for sure ...

[HappyTown]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sometimes people can be so insensitive, Mich ....

They're clueless .... ridiculous conspiracy theory, that's for sure ...

Mich, I agree with dan here... That crazy!!!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I had someone tell me that the reason I left the UPC (like 18 months ago, BTW) and changed my views (I believe they used backslid) was simply so that I could get a divorce now.

Well that is the reason then. What a joke. Some people think they are the authority on certain things and only thing they prove is how foolish they do. Professing themselves wise they became fools. Leaving church does not alway directly affect a marriage though it can happen. It is amazing that often times those in the ship can't see out side the ship because of the ship. If you know what I mean.

[U376977]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I had someone tell me that the reason I left the UPC (like 18 months ago, BTW) and changed my views (I believe they used backslid) was simply so that I could get a divorce now.

How calculating of you! You saw it coming 18 months ago! LOL. Sorry, this happened to you, both the church mess and the divorce. I hope and trust that the backslide quote is a misnomer.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sometimes people can be so insensitive, Mich ....

They're clueless .... ridiculous conspiracy theory, that's for sure ...

I learned long ago, that no matter what you do, there is always going to be someone who doesn't approve. That's why at the end of the day, there is only one opinion that matters!

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Well that is the reason then. What a joke. Some people think they are the authority on certain things and only thing they prove is how foolish they do. Professing themselves wise they became fools. Leaving church does not alway directly affect a marriage though it can happen. It is amazing that often times those in the ship can't see out side the ship because of the ship. If you know what I mean.

I do! I thought it was kind of funny by the way.

Originally Posted by U376977

How calculating of you! You saw it coming 18 months ago! LOL. Sorry, this happened to you, both the church mess and the divorce. I hope and trust that the backslide quote is a misnomer.

Hmmmm...whether or not I am a backslider depends on your perspective. I would say that a good 90% of the membership of AFF would consider it to be a valid title. I suppose we could do a poll..... LOL

I of course, consider myself to be...ah...frontslid...I guess

[U376977]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I don't think the HG will kill someones temptations by itself. I am not saying it doesn't have the power to though. It can be attributed to one hold on to an issue, no matter the issue. I know people freed from all sorts of things and I know people that can not get delivered from a bad attitude. Being or thinking one is gay and acting on it is two different things. Though the HG is powerful enough to deal with and destroy anything it will not destroy what one is not willing to give up.

God is soverign and will give His spirit to whomever He wants. I have heard for years things like "if you have marriage issues pray til you talk in tongues and that will take care of it" and the same with finance issues. I am being honest and saying there were issues that I faced that I would talk in tongues over for hours and still deal with them, but until I heard teaching about dealing with these issues and how to #1 realizing failure is normal, but God's grace gives us the ability to get over these things and #2 that we can only fight over things that are close to us and that one can not get ride of issues if they are still holding on and fighting them in their flesh.

This is the reason couple can sit through a HG shockamoo service, dance and fall out in the spirit and still go home and throw dishes and telephones at one another. Divorce in the church is as high as out of the church which shows there is a thin line between the churched and unchurched at times. The HG make a difference in ones life but if the person doesn't allow the HG to fully work then the HG will not destroy all it can due the our hands holding on to issues. The HG is a gentleman and will not over step its welcome boundaries..IMO

No, it will not "kill" temptation. We are only promised the "way of escape." Of course, you have to be looking for the way out.

I know of a young single woman who came to our church. An evangelist came thru and it came out that he gave up his personal number to her and she was calling him and traveling to his meetings whenever he was close by. The evangelist tried to place the blame all on the woman--my pastor was even buying that story. Until I pointed out all the other evangelists, and men that should could have been calling and was not. Difference? The one she called was not looking for a way of escape, he was looking for a woman.