Ray Boltz????

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Amos

Sis, I am not going to bother debating Scripture with someone who denies its infallibility.

That would be pointless.

That's fine...

I was simply trying to play by your rules

You belive the Bible is everything, and you have a theory, I was simply curious as to how you "biblically" arrived at your theory. But I understand if you don't...you know....want to cast your pearls before me

For the Record though, just because I don't believe that the Bible is the ultimate authority in the universe, don't mean that I have no respect for it at all, nor do I think it without value.

[Amos]

My dad believed the Bible had value.

He thought it was instructive as a general blueprint for morality and an interesting collection of myths regarding the human condition.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Amos

My dad believed the Bible had value.

He thought it was instructive as a general blueprint for morality and an interesting collection of myths regarding the human condition.

This is where I stand right now:

I believe the Bible to be written by Men, good men, who loved God, and wrote down their stories and experiences that occured during their quest for a relationship with God. I do believe that it can be inspiried, just as a sermon, a song, or a poem can be inspired. But I do not believe that all parts of it are inspired, nor do I believe it to be infallible.

I believe it to be largely influenced by the cultural, the times, and the gender of the writers.

But I do believe that it has a purpose. Not only a historical purpose. But it is the best written account we have of Jesus.

But I believe that it is the Spirit that is to lead us, guide us, teach us, comfort us, etc. (not the book).

I do believe that the book contains a lot of wisdom.

[mfblume]

I believe the church of recent decades, and perhaps centuries, has not delved into the truths of Gal 5, and perhaps this truth needs to be recovered. I deeply desire to fully understand this issue Paul mentioned here:

Gal 5:16 KJV This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Paul did not struggle daily with sin. Many consider 1 Cor 15:31 to be indication Paul struggled with sin. That is not true. The struggle was physical persecutions wherein he was physically threatened with death every day. Paul mentions being in jeopardy in verse 30 and fighting with beasts of Ephesus in verse 32. Nothing is mentioned about sin there.

And then Romans 7's struggle is often misunderstood as saying Paul never ceased this struggle, when in actuality Paul was dealing with his past struggle that he learned to overcome. Romans 7:6 shows us that there is more to it than knowing we must serve God.

Rom 7:6 KJV But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

It is HOW we serve God that is the real issue. And there are two manners, one of which is wrong and was mentioned by Paul throughout Romans 7:7-19, and it is called the oldness of the letter. Paul learned through that past ordeal how to correctly deal with this struggle, and that is through the newness of the Spirit. This is seen to only be a past struggle with Paul according to the last verse of chapter 7 and the first two verses of chapter 8 read together.

Rom 7:25-8:2 KJV I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul thanked God that God would deliver Him from that struggle, and it is through ceasing to serve God through oldness of the letter and instead through newness of the Spirit, so he said we must walk after the Spirit.

I have not arrived, but things are getting definitely much better. There is a lot to this. Michael the Disciple has some good thoughts about this as well. But folks, if Paul said we can walk after the Spirit, then we can. And if he said walking after the Spirit causes us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, then we can cease this struggle. I believe, again, these truths have been abandoned for quite some time, possibly since the first century! But they are there. It takes some time to renew our minds to these truths. Many are delving into this at the present. And I think we've come to the church's greatest hour!

As long as we walk after the Spirit, we will not sin. As soon as such a walk stops, then sin is right there.

[SDG]

In this we agree .... brother Blume ... we are overcomers when we walk in the Spirit ...

we may disagree in the practicality ...

there are layers to this, imo, as there are layers to the sins each struggles with ... and layers to our entire being ... and layers and levels in the Spirit.

Not the black and white portrayal some who teach the doctrine of perfection seem to teach ...

In Jesus Christ ... we have the ultimate victory ...

We also seem to read Paul's words as always being commandments ... at times it is .... but for the most part it is pastoral advice and encouragement. Of course there is pastoral teaching in them also ... all of it based on Godly principles.

[Sister Alvear]

I have a friend their church teaches they must be perfect in every sense of the word and some of them think they have arrived...
I don´t think so....

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

No, me Jekyll.

I have nothing to get over. Couldn't care less. He's not coming to sing at my church any time this millenium so *shrug*. Someone started a thread, I responded. I still don't care for his music. I'm SURE you don't care for the music I like.

Great. Looks like I have a fan. Don't worry I don't obsess over ignorance so I'll leave you to go on your merry little way.

Until they close the doors on my login, I will choose to respond in any way I feel appropriate on any thread I choose. Same freedom you have.

I like the music you like...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

In this we agree .... brother Blume ... we are overcomers when we walk in the Spirit ...

we may disagree in the practicality ...

there are layers to this, imo, as there are layers to the sins each struggles with ... and layers to our entire being ... and layers and levels in the Spirit.

Not the black and white portrayal some who teach the doctrine of perfection seem to teach ...

In Jesus Christ ... we have the ultimate victory ...

Amen. I cannot accept the thought of this all being an ideal in Romans 6. And let's face it, people can misread Romans, as Peter said Paul's writings are hard to be understood. Such issues require years of study. You are right that it is not black and white.

One thing I noticed is that people expect to sin due to a sin consciousness. And when i read Romans 6, Paul works it out for us in regards to a single death with Christ to sin, and not a daily thing. We daily deny self and flesh, but we've died to sin just once. And by understanding Paul's message, in Romans 6 especially, the expectation to sin is removed. For, if we expect to sin, we will find a way to do it. Knowing we've died to sin, causes that expectation to be removed. This is all part of what is called the renewing of the mind.

[Sister Alvear]

God gives us the power to choose the spiritual rather than the material; the vision which sees Him who is invisible, rather than that which only the eyes of flesh behold; the ability to strive for the eternal reward rather than the temporal satisfaction of fleshly desires. And that is easier said than done!
However in making our choses must keep ETERNITY in mind.

[Sister Alvear]

The Bible was written by people just like us...HUMANS...However the words were inspired by the Lord himself. The errors are human errors. God makes NO mistakes...and What He said is what He said.