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  #81  
Old 09-17-2008, 11:37 AM
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Get used to it...if you don't agree with them you're considered liberal communist scum.
No OP is considered a very conservitive constitutionalist.

YOU are a liberal boarderline socialist.... but you arent pond scum...


as for communits, you arent a Stalinist. I mean you dont want to kill people, but a socalist is a marxist is a communist...in the strictest since of the word....



but being a marxist/commie doesnt mean you are a vile totalitarian who uses marxism to subjugate the people.... there is a difference...


Peace to you my brother!
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  #82  
Old 09-17-2008, 11:43 AM
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Ferd...SS would be secure if they'd agree not to touch it. The system would work...it's the robbers from both parties who broke it. Now one party wants it secured and untouchable (Democrats) and the other wants it handed over to the banks (Republicans).
how acinine.


since the 1960's republicans have tried to reform social security to make it work like it should, and democrats have beat them back.

social security works now just like it was designed to. money flows in, the government spends it. the democrats use it as a scare tacktic to keep old people in line and voting for them!

PS, Germany has a privitized system and it works.

a SS system set up alike your average 401k system is the only thing that should be done. what the democrats want is a system that THEY control. period. because they know better.

on its best day, the SS system simply garentees that anyone relying on SS in retirement will retire poor. and democrats like it that way and it is sick.
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  #83  
Old 09-17-2008, 11:45 AM
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Originally Posted by U376977 View Post
There is no way one can understand what is going on now without a lot of study and a knowledge base.

I started this thread with the hopes that people could band together and pray for our country.
Amen and I am praying!
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  #84  
Old 09-17-2008, 11:46 AM
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Originally Posted by U376977 View Post
Exactly, this is a finance subject. Can I let you in on a secret---I know for a fact that even Paulson--has had to have bankers sit with him to help educate him regarding aspects of this crisis and how to respond. And he has a finance background a very good understanding of economics. There is no way one can understand what is going on now without a lot of study and a knowledge base. That is why Frank and Dodd are so dangerous. One fear I have heard from major bankers is that of a complete change in administration in the congress..."because we will have to educate a whole new group" of lawmakers so that they will not enact laws that will make the country worse off and prolong the financial crisis. So someone here on the AFF without even basic finance education cannot understand the depth of the crisis.

I started this thread with the hopes that people could band together and pray for our country. The only hope for us is for God has mercy. Politics have little to do with this, I did write that I think McCain will be a better economic pres. but whoever is elected will have a HUGE mess to deal with. Prayer and faith is something that people here could be good at, that message could be carried to their churches, together they could help change the course of the nation.

can you day derivatives? and anyone claiming to understand derivatives as they are used in financial terms is a liar. (i mean in detail)
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  #85  
Old 09-17-2008, 12:33 PM
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

good job u37 and ferd, somebody on here gets it, even if it is hard, lol
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  #86  
Old 09-17-2008, 02:19 PM
U376977 U376977 is offline
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

What happens if WaMu fails? Are we set up for a run on the banks? Will the commercial banking system fail? See this article about the health of the FDIC.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/...eposits_safety

WASHINGTON - Banks are not the only ones struggling in the growing financial crisis. The fund established to insure their deposits is also feeling the pinch, and the taxpayer may be the lender of last resort. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., whose insurance fund has slipped below the minimum target level set by Congress, could be forced to tap tax dollars through a Treasury Department loan if Washington Mutual Inc., the nation's largest thrift, or another struggling rival fails, economists and industry analysts said Tuesday.
Treasury has already come to the rescue of several corporate victims of the housing and credit crunches. The government took over mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and helped finance the sale of investment bank Bear Stearns to J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.
Eleven federally insured banks and thrifts have failed this year, including Pasadena, Calif.-based IndyMac Bank, by far the largest shut down by regulators.
Additional failures of large banks or savings and loans companies seem likely, and that could overwhelm the FDIC's insurance fund, said Brian Bethune, U.S. economist at consulting firm Global Insight.
"We've got a ... retail bank run forming in this country," said Christopher Whalen, senior vice president and managing director of Institutional Risk Analytics.
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Monday that the country's commercial banking system "is safe and sound" and that "the American people can be very, very confident about their accounts in our banking system." FDIC officials also have said 98 percent of U.S. banks still meet regulators' standards for adequate capital.
But fear is growing on Main Street as well as Wall Street about the likelihood of multiple bank failures and the strain that would put on the FDIC.
The fund, which is marking its 75th anniversary this year with a "Face Your Finances" campaign, is at $45.2 billion — the lowest level since 2003. At the same time, the number of troubled banks is at a five-year high.
FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair has not ruled out the possibility of going to the Treasury for a short-term loan at some point. But she has said she does not expect the FDIC to take the more drastic action of using a separate $30 billion credit line with Treasury — something that has never been done.
The FDIC's fund is currently below the minimum set by Congress in a 2006 law. The failure of IndyMac Bank in July cost $8.9 billion.
Next month, Bair plans to propose increasing the premiums paid by banks and thrifts to replenish the fund. That plan is likely to be approved by the FDIC board, which consists of her, Comptroller of the Currency John Dugan, Thrift Supervision Director John Reich and two other officials.
Bair also is considering a system in which banks with riskier portfolios would be charged higher premiums, raising the possibility those costs could be passed on to consumers.
A Washington Mutual failure would dwarf the largest bank collapse in U.S. history — Continental Illinois National Bank in 1984, with $33.6 billion in assets.
By comparison, WaMu and its subsidiaries had assets of $309.73 billion as of June 30 and IndyMac had $32 billion when it shut down.
Arthur Murton, director of the FDIC's insurance and research division, said that when large institutions have failed in recent years, the hit to the fund has been about 5 to 10 percent of the company's assets.
Standard & Poor's Ratings Service late Monday cut its counterparty credit rating on WaMu to junk, action that followed downgrades by both Moody's and Fitch last week. Concern about the Seattle-based thrift, which has significant exposure to risky mortgage securities and other assets, has grown in recent weeks, and the company's stock price has plummeted.
WaMu responded Monday by saying that it did not expect the S&P downgrade to have a material impact on its borrowings, collateral or margin requirements. The bank said its capital at the end of the third quarter on Sept. 30 is expected to be "significantly above" required levels and that its outlook for expected credit losses is unchanged.
Some analyst estimates put the cost of a WaMu failure to the FDIC at more than $20 billion, but other experts say it is very difficult to predict. Unknown, for example, is the amount of advances that institutions may have taken from one of the regional banks in the Federal Home Loan Bank system. Banks and thrifts have significantly increased their requests for advances, or loans, from the 12 regional home loan banks since the mortgage crisis began last year.
These amounts aren't publicly disclosed but must be repaid if a bank or thrift fails, notes Karen Shaw Petrou, managing partner of Federal Financial Analytics.
If the FDIC doesn't have enough cash to cover the initial costs of a bank or thrift failure, one option would be short-term loans from the Treasury. That last happened in 1991-92, during the last part of the savings and loan crisis, when the FDIC borrowed $15.1 billion from the Treasury and repaid it with interest about a year later.
Based on projections of possible scenarios of bank failures, "between the (insurance) fund that we have now and our ability to draw on the resources of the industry ... we do have the resources" needed, Murton said Tuesday.
Though short-term borrowing from Treasury for working capital may be possible, he said, tapping the long-term credit line is unlikely.
But Whalen said the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and Congress should "immediately devise" and announce a plan to backstop the FDIC with up to $500 billion in borrowing authority to meet cash needs for closing or selling failed banks.
"While the FDIC already has a credit line in place and this figure may seem excessive — and hopefully it is — the idea here is to overshoot the actual number to reinforce public confidence," Whalen wrote in a note to clients. "Simply having Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson or Ben Bernanke making hopeful statements is inadequate. Like it says in the movies: 'Show us the money.'"
Before Congress passed the law overhauling deposit insurance in 2006, about 90 percent of all insured banks and thrifts — considered to have adequate capital and to be well managed — paid no premiums to the FDIC. Today, all of them do.
There were 117 banks and thrifts considered to be in trouble in the second quarter, the highest level since 2003, according to FDIC data released last month. The agency doesn't disclose the names of institutions on its internal list of troubled banks. On average, 13 percent of banks that make the list fail. Total assets of troubled banks tripled in the second quarter to $78 billion, and $32 billion of that coming from IndyMac Bank.
Last month, Bair called those results "pretty dismal," but said they were not surprising given the housing slump, a worsening economy, and disruptions in financial and credit markets. "More banks will come on the (troubled) list as credit problems worsen," he said. "Assets of problem institutions also will continue to rise."
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  #87  
Old 09-17-2008, 02:59 PM
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James Griffin James Griffin is offline
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
can you day derivatives? and anyone claiming to understand derivatives as they are used in financial terms is a liar. (i mean in detail)
I would not go that far. I have a done fairly extensive study and understand the concepts.

I would say I would doubt the veracity of anyone who says that they can actually predict them.

Furthermore, once broken down they are simply insurance policies predicting the future movement of stocks and commodities. Personally, I think of it as educated gambling, which is probably the way the majority approach the stock market anyway.

A far cry from the original intent, namely to raise capital.

Derivatives end up serving the function of reducing the future ACTION of a financial instrument to a commodity in and of itself regardless of what is happening to the company or "goods" which were supposed to be its original basis of value.

Potential trillions involved, enough to wreck the economy world wide and utter folly. Only one of the several factors which will lead to our economic apocalypse.
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  #88  
Old 09-17-2008, 03:03 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Potential trillions involved, enough to wreck the economy world wide and utter folly. Only one of the several factors which will lead to our economic apocalypse.
I didn't expect this from you!
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  #89  
Old 09-17-2008, 03:14 PM
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James Griffin James Griffin is offline
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
I didn't expect this from you!
Why?? I have said it on other threads months ago.


There is a plethora of reasons why it is inevitable.

And the knowledge of its inevitability does not affect my walk with God.

None of us have the promise of tomorrow, much less what is coming in the next 20 years.
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  #90  
Old 09-17-2008, 03:22 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: The Ultimate Wall Street Nightmare

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Originally Posted by James Griffin View Post
Why?? I have said it on other threads months ago.


There is a plethora of reasons why it is inevitable.

And the knowledge of its inevitability does not affect my walk with God.

None of us have the promise of tomorrow, much less what is coming in the next 20 years.
I usually don't read the political or economic threads so I may not have read what you wrote months ago. The last economic thread I read, CC1 was calling doom and gloom folks....alarmists.

Is this what your countdown is pointing to?
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