Who's fault is it again?

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Aquila

All of America's leaders are buffoons. I don't care what party they say they're a part of. They're all brainless.

There is a poster around here who is referred to as Mr. Kettle because he calls the pot black. Comments like this will not distinguish you from that type of comparison, but the circular logic here is pretty funny.

One would have to be brainless to assume that ALL of our leaders are in fact brainless...for they would certainly be dead.

I would rather suffice it to say the left side of the isle, the liberals, the democrats are Godless traitors and should be tried for treason (say that three times fast)

Hows that? Better?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by scotty

This is still Clinton leftovers ppl.

When Clinton created his "surplus budget" it was on paper , not real or current. If we stayed on his budget then after 8 to 10 years we would have a 10 trillion dollar surplus. It was then the economy started booming , ppl started buying , etc etc. But they were doing it based on what Clinton said was coming, not what ppl actually had in their pockets.

Well Clinton didnt budget in a terrorist attacK and the dot com bubble busting. The first part of your post is wrong, the market and economy numbers started going down in late 2000. We were heading down hill when Busch let go the first barrage of refunds and tax cuts. And it turned around what Clinton had messed up, but Afganastan and Iraq have taken a financial toll... A toll I have no problem paying for. But all of the purchased made during the Clinton years of promised surplus were made on credit , credit given based on numbers that never materialized.

Now we are paying for it.

SCOTTY!!

Good to see you! i remember you from when I first joined AFF.

I disagree with you. If things were financially sound in America right now, we'd have 8 years of Republican leadership to thank.

But since things are bad, we would rather reach back to the policies of another decade and try to point the fingers.

In 8 years, you would think that this Administration's "Financial Gatekeepers" would have seen this coming and warned our country to take action.

But the truth is, they were asleep on the job-- drunk on greed and excess.

One could try to put most of this on Clinton, but it would be naive at best.

Republicans have been in power for 8 years. It's happening on their watch, at the end of their watch. This is their baby!

[Kay B]

Originally Posted by Aquila

All of America's leaders are buffoons. I don't care what party they say they're a part of. They're all brainless.

Merle Haggard)
When you're running down my country man
You're walking on the fightin' side of me.
I hear people talking bad about the way we have to live here in this country
Harping on the wars we fight griping bout the way things oughta be
I don't mind 'em switching sides and standing up for things they believe in
When they're running down my country they're walking on the fightin' side of me.
They're walking on the fightin' side of me
Running down a way old life our fightin' men have fought and died to keep
If you don't love it leave it let this song that I'm singing be a warning
When you're running down our country hoss you're walking on the fightin' side of me.
--- Instrumental ---
I read about some squirrely guy who claims that he just don't believe in fightin'
And I wonder just how long the rest of us can count on being free
They love our milk and honey but they preach about some other way of livin'
When they're running down our country man they're walking on the fightin' side of me.
They're walking on the fightin' side of me
Running down a way old life our fightin' men have fought and died to keep
If you don't love it leave it let this song that I'm singing be a warning
When you're running down our country hoss you're walking on the fightin' side of me.
When you're running down our country hoss you're walking on the fightin' side of me...

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

There is a poster around here who is referred to as Mr. Kettle because he calls the pot black. Comments like this will not distinguish you from that type of comparison, but the circular logic here is pretty funny.

One would have to be brainless to assume that ALL of our leaders are in fact brainless...for they would certainly be dead.

I would rather suffice it to say the left side of the isle, the liberals, the democrats are Godless traitors and should be tried for treason (say that three times fast)

Hows that? Better?

most folks here would mindlessly blame the democrats any way and then try to find a way to support their blame.

8 YEARS of Republican leadership!
This is how they thank America!

[Sam]

The Real Culprits In This Meltdown
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 4:20 PM PT
Big Government: Barack Obama and Democrats blame the historic financial turmoil on the market. But if it's dysfunctional, Democrats during the Clinton years are a prime reason for it.

Obama in a statement yesterday blamed the shocking new round of subprime-related bankruptcies on the free-market system, and specifically the "trickle-down" economics of the Bush administration, which he tried to gig opponent John McCain for wanting to extend.

But it was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street's most revered institutions.

Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."

Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the '90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck.

And it was the Clinton administration that mismanaged the quasi-governmental agencies that over the decades have come to manage the real estate market in America.

As soon as Clinton crony Franklin Delano Raines took the helm in 1999 at Fannie Mae, for example, he used it as his personal piggy bank, looting it for a total of almost $100 million in compensation by the time he left in early 2005 under an ethical cloud.

Other Clinton cronies, including Janet Reno aide Jamie Gorelick, padded their pockets to the tune of another $75 million
.
Raines was accused of overstating earnings and shifting losses so he and other senior executives could earn big bonuses.

In the end, Fannie had to pay a record $400 million civil fine for SEC and other violations, while also agreeing as part of a settlement to make changes in its accounting procedures and ways of managing risk.

But it was too little, too late. Raines had reportedly steered Fannie Mae business to subprime giant Countrywide Financial, which was saved from bankruptcy by Bank of America.

At the same time, the Clinton administration was pushing Fannie and her brother Freddie Mac to buy more mortgages from low-income households.
The Clinton-era corruption, combined with unprecedented catering to affordable-housing lobbyists, resulted in today's nationalization of both Fannie and Freddie, a move that is expected to cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.

And the worst is far from over. By the time it is, we'll all be paying for Clinton's social experiment, one that Obama hopes to trump with a whole new round of meddling in the housing and jobs markets. In fact, the social experiment Obama has planned could dwarf both the Great Society and New Deal in size and scope.

There's a political root cause to this mess that we ignore at our peril. If we blame the wrong culprits, we'll learn the wrong lessons. And taxpayers will be on the hook for even larger bailouts down the road.

But the government-can-do-no-wrong crowd just doesn't get it. They won't acknowledge the law of unintended consequences from well-meaning, if misguided, acts.

Obama and Democrats on the Hill think even more regulation and more interference in the market will solve the problem their policies helped cause. For now, unarmed by the historic record, conventional wisdom is buying into their blame-business-first rhetoric and bigger-government solutions.

While government arguably has a role in helping low-income folks buy a home, Clinton went overboard by strong-arming lenders with tougher and tougher regulations, which only led to lenders taking on hundreds of billions in subprime bilge.

Market failure? Hardly. Once again, this crisis has government's fingerprints all over it.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by 1399

SCOTTY!!

Good to see you! i remember you from when I first joined AFF.

I disagree with you. If things were financially sound in America right now, we'd have 8 years of Republican leadership to thank.

But since things are bad, we would rather reach back to the policies of another decade and try to point the fingers.

In 8 years, you would think that this Administration's "Financial Gatekeepers" would have seen this coming and warned our country to take action.

But the truth is, they were asleep on the job-- drunk on greed and excess.

One could try to put most of this on Clinton, but it would be naive at best.

Republicans have been in power for 8 years. It's happening on their watch, at the end of their watch. This is their baby!

Actually, I believe this is what the experts are saying.

[JaneEyre]

CARTER MAY BE MORE TO BLAME THAN BUSH OR MCCAIN (WORTH THE READ):
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...bush-or-mccain

AN ARTICLE FROM WINTER 2000 (WORTH THE READ)...Long, but worth reading...Notice the reference to law passed in 1977 during Carter's presidency and how it was pushed during the Clinton era:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_...on_dollar.html

The link below to forums goes to an inactive page..Wonder why?..It was entitled "Social Engineers of 1977 Caused Bank Failures"

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6035_102...sageID=2865328

THE LEFTISTS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TURN AMERICAN INTO A SOCIALIST COUNTRY EVEN PRIOR TO THE 60s....Collapse everything and where do the people turn?...It was NOT a failure of the Free Market but a Failure of the Government to do Social Engineering!

[JaneEyre]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Actually, I believe this is what the experts are saying.

Carter got the plans approved and built a lttle house (most likely with good intentions)..Clinton came along and built a big, big, house that no one could pay for and then it turned into a monster that began to implode with American financial institutes, real estate and the stock market investments inside. Bush has just helped to promote socialism...I don't hate any of these men nor are my posts intended to bash them. Please don't misinterpret my post...Not saying that I agree with everything at the Ludwig Von Mises Institute, but when I read it now it makes more sense than it did a few days ago.

http://mises.org/story/3126

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Sam

The Real Culprits In This Meltdown
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 4:20 PM PT


Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the '90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck.

And it was the Clinton administration that mismanaged the quasi-governmental agencies that over the decades have come to manage the real estate market in America.

The bolded is fact. Had the people who are hired to watch analyze, detect and protect had been on their job this decade, things would not be so bad right now.

That to me is common sense.

Greenspan was around for how long before he retired?

8 years into this decade and NO ONE saw this coming???? Get Real!!!

The fact that the author of this article spent most of his effort linking today back to over ten years ago makes me think that he/she is not objective.

BILL CLINTON-- The Republicans favorite whipping boy!

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by 1399

most folks here would mindlessly blame the democrats any way and then try to find a way to support their blame.

8 YEARS of Republican leadership!
This is how they thank America!

...I would give most conservative folks more credit than that.

I would say some would mindlessly blame the democrats, but the true conservatives know that socialism is a path to destruction, civil disobedience in order to push your agenda forward is a path to destruction, political correctness with those who would seek to destroy you is a path to destruction, and big government is the path to destruction. That is why I said that liberals are traitors. They hate Jesus, think it is their perogative to kill babies, they want to use my money to fund perverse art and the would seek to squash any opinion other than their own.

If someone is mindless, they have no excuse now after reading this post.