Excellent post. I am amazed at how many Christians seem to have a total disregard for the fruit of the Spirit and other Christian values when it comes to these things.
Bitterness is a consuming thing that is contrary to the very core of Christianity. Yet we see it rear its ugly head again and again.
I think some of those caught in the grip of bitterness justify it to themselves as "rightous indignation".
I agree with you CC cause I have seen some that have left and speak nothing but great things about the movement and others that could say nothing good at all.
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"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
What gets old too is when some think just because you are gone from UPC that you are bitter. Not all of us are bitter. (and those 'some' ARE NOT Sis. Alvear)
What's ironic is that some of the same folks who criticize the AFF for discussing UPC "issues" are the same ones who tear down ministers in the opposing organization (whichever one it may be) every chance they get.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
One of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much is because, while I left the UPC many years ago, that doesn't mean that I don't still love the people of the UPC. I do!
At the same time, one thing I determined long ago was that I don't need anyone "judging me" for the decisions that I've made in leaving - that is between me and God. And because I don't want anyone to judge me, I also don't feel the need to judge anyone else. I may not agree with everything that is said, but I don't need to put anyone down for what they believe. Why would I? Am I perfect? nope
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Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of a battle ! ! ! !
Lately I have noticed lots of comments on the UPCI. What I say here is not that I am for or against those that left for I do NOT even belong.
However when we leave something that served us why not leave in grace and just go on...Close that chapter....Let them go on and you go on...Why vomit on the table where you once ate?
Everybody in leadership has had those people who couldn´t stay out of your house and as long as you were feeding them you were heaven sent...but the day the table was empty they were gone...and telling how evil you (organization) were.
I know a former missionary that left Brazil many years ago and the people would write this missionary, try to contact this missionary but the former missionary said to me, "Janice, If I contact the people in the end I will cause confusion. I love the people ENOUGH not to contact them"
I was young back then and thought that was strange for she had raised up a work from nothing...it in reality was her work but due to circumstances she felt to leave.
Now many years have passed and I can look back and I see seh did the right thing. She did not keep a stir and an unrest...she just gracefully walked out.
I was so young back then I really thought she ought to keep contact. After all they were her babies so to speak...she had not come in and worked in someone else´s work and taken advantage of anyone. They were the product of her labor.
Today that work still goes on...today I know if she would have kept in contact there would have been unrest until today...She was godly enough to make the right decision.
That is how I feel about people leaving any group...it is fine to leave but have enough grace to LEAVE...
In reality this person in my eyes was done wrong but the souls involved meant more to her than her personal feelings...a rare thing in the world today.
...and this is to no certain person or group...just my thoughts...
It seems the concnsences of those posting is, that one is vomiting at the table they once ate at because they point out false doctrine that is being taught in many of the churches and believed by some at the highest level of the UPCI? ( saved at repentance, light doctrine, friends of the bride doctrine)
Is it vomiting at the table when on takes a stand against those in the UPCI that teach it is grammatically correct to say I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost which is Jesus name??????
Today if one points out false doctrine where ever it is found they are told that they don't have love, that they are mean spirited.
When one fellowships with those that preach or teach these false doctrine they are validating what is taught in that church, no matter the reason!! The end does not justify the means!!!! They might as well felowship with Catholics.
It seems the concnsences of those posting is, that one is vomiting at the table they once ate at because they point out false doctrine that is being taught in many of the churches and believed by some at the highest level of the UPCI? ( saved at repentance, light doctrine, friends of the bride doctrine)
Is it vomiting at the table when on takes a stand against those in the UPCI that teach it is grammatically correct to say I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost which is Jesus name??????
Today if one points out false doctrine where ever it is found they are told that they don't have love, that they are mean spirited.
When one fellowships with those that preach or teach these false doctrine they are validating what is taught in that church, no matter the reason!! The end does not justify the means!!!! They might as well felowship with Catholics.
It seems the concnsences of those posting is, that one is vomiting at the table they once ate at because they point out false doctrine that is being taught in many of the churches and believed by some at the highest level of the UPCI? ( saved at repentance, light doctrine, friends of the bride doctrine)
Is it vomiting at the table when on takes a stand against those in the UPCI that teach it is grammatically correct to say I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost which is Jesus name??????
Today if one points out false doctrine where ever it is found they are told that they don't have love, that they are mean spirited.
When one fellowships with those that preach or teach these false doctrine they are validating what is taught in that church, no matter the reason!! The end does not justify the means!!!!
No, Light. It's not wrong to say something is false or that you disagree with it scripturally. It is wrong to malign the intentions, reputations and specific names of other ministers simply because they don't share your views.
It's usually better to set yourself apart by stating what YOU believe, rather than maligning your brother by stating what they believe--or what you THINK they believe.
And, yes, it IS wrong to sit down to dinner with other ministers and have brethren who are NOT present to defend themselves as your main course.
Galatians 5:15 "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another."
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Sister A great thoughts. I agree with everyone's post on this thread except for one.
Some really good thoughts.
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Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
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