UPC District board suing church in MS.?

[jtork]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I have stated this elsewhere, but will do so here as well.

If the Pastor was leading the church into false doctrine, I could understand fighting it. But the man (from my understanding) has not changed doctrine. He still believes Acts 2:38 is essential for salvation. So this is not a fight over spiritual issues, but over carnal issues.

The sad fact is that some believe that because they have done what they were supposed to for years, and supported the work of God, that now that a minister has come in and is leading the church the way he believes God would have him do so, they believe they should have a say so. I disagree with this mentality. If you trusted the man enough to vote him in as Pastor, and you trusted him enough to lead your carcass out of Egypt, why are you now mumbling and complaining. Follow the Man of God and let him lead, or go find you a Pastor that you can follow.

Well - I think that is one of the problems with pentecost - there should be more to "doctrine" than just Acts 2:38 - that is the mentality of a lot of people - well he is preaching speaking in tounges and baptism in Jesus Name so I guess we should just support him in everything he does - that is a CULT mentality!

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I have stated this elsewhere, but will do so here as well.

If the Pastor was leading the church into false doctrine, I could understand fighting it. But the man (from my understanding) has not changed doctrine. He still believes Acts 2:38 is essential for salvation. So this is not a fight over spiritual issues, but over carnal issues.

The sad fact is that some believe that because they have done what they were supposed to for years, and supported the work of God, that now that a minister has come in and is leading the church the way he believes God would have him do so, they believe they should have a say so. I disagree with this mentality. If you trusted the man enough to vote him in as Pastor, and you trusted him enough to lead your carcass out of Egypt, why are you now mumbling and complaining. Follow the Man of God and let him lead, or go find you a Pastor that you can follow.

This would not be an issue if the pastor had done things properly. If he feels that this indeed the direction he should go why use such deceptive tactics.

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I hope everyone reading knows there are two sides at least to every story. What if some older members were just throwing a fit because the present pastor has welcomed blacks into the church and this other stuff is a smoke screen? This is Mississippi?

Steve sometimes one should gather as much information on a topic before speaking. There have been blacks in that church since I know 1995. About 75% of my 4000 clients are black and most of them do not want to go to a "white" church.

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by jtork

Well - I think that is one of the problems with pentecost - there should be more to "doctrine" than just Acts 2:38 - that is the mentality of a lot of people - well he is preaching speaking in tounges and baptism in Jesus Name so I guess we should just support him in everything he does - that is a CULT mentality!

I agree I cant find anywhere that you have to agree with your pastor on every issue. The Bible says not to question the annointing not the annointed. This kind of mentallity this pastor has leads to dictatorship. I personally know of pastors who have to approve of everything members purchase. That is not Biblical. So why support a man who is leaning heavily that direction. There is way more to this than just disaffiliation.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by StMark

My older brother almost single handedly built our 1st church and had much to do with the second and our final one. So I do understand the feelings expressed here.

As hard as it is, it's important to not let our emotions get tied up in brick and mortar alone. When we get involved in the work of God, we have to keep reminding ourselves that all of this is temporal. People come and go, die off, things change over time, things happen in churches. If we don't kep it in perspective, we can set ourselves up for devestation.

Delta Guitar knows that our neighboring church had the most shattering church split back in the 90s that ended up in death threats and family splits, it was a total nightmare. Again, we just have to gaurd ourselves that we do not attach our emotions to our labor & buildings to the point that it potentially destroys our souls

God is a wonderful pay master. he's taking everything into account and will reward us with a crown of life.

We need to remember to keep things SIMPLE. church is just a meeting place for believers. the building is not the church. It's the anointing and the glory that most important.

Wow, Mark. GREAT post!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by jtork

That was a dumb comment Steve Epley - you know most of you people are a bunch of the reason there are backsliders in Penetcost! On here quoting scripture about suing someone in one post and then gossiping about it in the next - bunch of hypocrites is what most of you are on here and Ministier WD who started this I sure hope you do not actually consider yourself a "minister"! Most of you on here have no idea what you are talking about - just running your mouth. Please tell me what church you all go to so I will be sure NOT to ever be a member there!

I think it was a question--not a statement of fact. Your reaction is a little visceral. Are you directly involved in this situation?

Look, I know that if it came right down to it what OUR family would do. That is all I can look at. We're attached to the people we go to church with, but I couldn't care LESS about the building. Unless there is a LOT more to this than meets the eye, we would just cut our losses and walk away. And I can't imagine what could be involved that would stop us from doing that.

We wouldn't want our family embroiled in church troubles anyway. No way would we stay in a church with this kind of conflict, with our children there as witnesses.

Sometimes you just lose. It's okay to lose. God will pick up the slack.

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by StMark

My older brother almost single handedly built our 1st church and had much to do with the second and our final one. So I do understand the feelings expressed here.

As hard as it is, it's important to not let our emotions get tied up in brick and mortar alone. When we get involved in the work of God, we have to keep reminding ourselves that all of this is temporal. People come and go, die off, things change over time, things happen in churches. If we don't kep it in perspective, we can set ourselves up for devestation.

Delta Guitar knows that our neighboring church had the most shattering church split back in the 90s that ended up in death threats and family splits, it was a total nightmare. Again, we just have to gaurd ourselves that we do not attach our emotions to our labor & buildings to the point that it potentially destroys our souls

God is a wonderful pay master. he's taking everything into account and will reward us with a crown of life.

We need to remember to keep things SIMPLE. church is just a meeting place for believers. the building is not the church. It's the anointing and the glory that most important.

I agree with you some. But Jesus ran the buyers and sellers out of the church for thier actions inside the temple he did not just walk away and find another building. In your way of thinking If someone wanted to change the American flag you would be ok with it b/c its only a symbol. The actual feelings and liberties it stands for really lie in the hearts of the veterans. Just a question to try to understand your point more.

[jtork]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think it was a question--not a statement of fact. Your reaction is a little visceral. Are you directly involved in this situation?

Look, I know that if it came right down to it what OUR family would do. That is all I can look at. We're attached to the people we go to church with, but I couldn't care LESS about the building. Unless there is a LOT more to this than meets the eye, we would just cut our losses and walk away. And I can't imagine what could be involved that would stop us from doing that.

We wouldn't want our family embroiled in church troubles anyway. No way would we stay in a church with this kind of conflict, with our children there as witnesses.

Sometimes you just lose. It's okay to lose. God will pick up the slack.

I realize it was not a statement of fact but it was also not just an innocent question - it was a stupid comment that should not have been made.

I went to that church for 30 years and thankfully I left before that pastor got there. I have plenty of relatives that still go there and an uncle that is on the board (or should I say used to be on the board before he was kicked off) - and the bottom line - the board memebers wanted to have a meeting with him to talk about the situation and he refused to meet with them and appointed himself a new board - OH and the new church treasurer he appointed can't even read and write unless he has learned in the past few years - He was very sneaky and deceptive with the whole deal but by golly he preaches Acts 2:38 - so we need to support him!

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think it was a question--not a statement of fact. Your reaction is a little visceral. Are you directly involved in this situation?

Look, I know that if it came right down to it what OUR family would do. That is all I can look at. We're attached to the people we go to church with, but I couldn't care LESS about the building. Unless there is a LOT more to this than meets the eye, we would just cut our losses and walk away. And I can't imagine what could be involved that would stop us from doing that.

We wouldn't want our family embroiled in church troubles anyway. No way would we stay in a church with this kind of conflict, with our children there as witnesses.

Sometimes you just lose. It's okay to lose. God will pick up the slack.

Some of these folks like me have way to many memories and ties to the building. My grandfather had to put his name on the mortgage as one of the board members. People died building that church. So in my opinion they have every right to disagree with some egotistical man from California who has been in this city for 4 years. That building has been a symbol of the UPC not only in our city but throughout the entire south. So I think if you will not fight for something that you put forth blood sweat and tears into and something that is tangible you will be to spineless to fight for anything.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by aak1972

I agree with you some. But Jesus ran the buyers and sellers out of the church for thier actions inside the temple he did not just walk away and find another building. In your way of thinking If someone wanted to change the American flag you would be ok with it b/c its only a symbol. The actual feelings and liberties it stands for really lie in the hearts of the veterans. Just a question to try to understand your point more.

He was Jesus. He could see hearts, therefore He could make judgments about their hearts and react accordingly. He had the right to bring about judgment, call them hypocrites, and to call attention to what was in their hearts. No human has the ability to see in a man's heart, or react as if he/she has that ability. (E.g., pronounce judgment accordingly)

So the example of Jesus in the temple doesn't apply, because NONE of us would ever qualify to wreak that kind of havoc.


I also agree that we have the right to "judge a matter" among ourselves. That is different from pronouncing judgment upon another person, and going through the church with a (figurative) whip. In this case, though, several people have said that taking the matter to court was a last resort, and that biblical avenues had already been exhausted. Therefore, it is apparent that judging the matter amongst the church didn't work. After that, the only recourse is to walk away. IMO, anyway.