UPC District board suing church in MS.? - Page 18

MissBrattified · #**171** 11-12-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimples

The key here is "your home", your name is on the deed.

The church is not personally owned by only one person or group of people. I understand the hurt because of the sweat and blood that was shed to build it, but it's not "yours".

Good point, Dimples. Also, I think it is being missed that the "church" is made up of people--not buildings.

aak1972 · #**172** 11-12-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimples

The key here is "your home", your name is on the deed.

The church is not personally owned by only one person or group of people. I understand the hurt because of the sweat and blood that was shed to build it, but it's not "yours".

Please read all my post the board members had to put thier name on the deed and mortgage. And when the church had to have roof repairs and borrowed $112,000 the pastor would not and I mean he flatfoot refused to sign his name to the loan so the board members had to sign thiers. So if this church does not pay this debt the lender will require the guarantors (the board members) to repay this loan.

MissBrattified · #**173** 11-12-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

Please read all my post the board members had to put their name on the deed and mortgage. And when the church had to have roof repairs and borrowed $112,000 the pastor would not and I mean he flatfoot refused to sign his name to the loan so the board members had to sign theirs. So if this church does not pay this debt the lender will require the guarantors (the board members) to repay this loan.

aak, if the board members put their name on the deed and mortgage, then they (along with the rest of the members) are rightfully responsible for any repairs or debts incurred.

What would you prefer? That the pastor alone would be held responsible for the cost of repairs or the church debt?

My husband served on our church board for a 4-year term, and there is definitely a lot of personal responsibility involved, in reference to the church financial obligations.

aak1972 · #**174** 11-12-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

aak, if the board members put their name on the deed and mortgage, then they (along with the rest of the members) are rightfully responsible for any repairs or debts incurred.

What would you prefer? That the pastor alone would be held responsible for the cost of repairs oe church debt?

My husband served on our church board for a 4-year term, and there is definitely a lot of personal responsibility involved, in reference to the church financial obligations.

But your telling the people that have made this obligation to walk away, it cannot legally be done. Since the loan is a legal document the secular court has to be involved. The board members that filed the suit are also the baord members that were kicked off the board. But thier name is still on the loan. They want to be removed from the loan. So to do this the court had to be involved. It is also against the Bible to walk away from a loan obligation.This is only one aspect of the suit.

MissBrattified · #**175** 11-12-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

But your telling the people that have made this obligation to walk away, it cannot legally be done. Since the loan is a legal document the secular court has to be involved. The board members that filed the suit are also the board members that were kicked off the board. But their name is still on the loan. They want to be removed from the loan. So to do this the court had to be involved. It is also against the Bible to walk away from a loan obligation.This is only one aspect of the suit.

Are the board members (former or current) wanting the pastor to be solely responsible for the church debt?

Sherri · #**176** 11-12-2008, 08:18 AM

I don't know what makes the difference - maybe it's the way your church corporation is set up. But our deacons have never been personally financially responsible for notes they have signed, according to our bank.

aak1972 · #**177** 11-12-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Are the board members (former or current) wanting the pastor to be solely responsible for the church debt?

No not at all. The board members that voted to stay UPC were kicked off. He said from the pulpit they were evil b/c they didnt support him. So since they are not board members they want off the loan.

deltaguitar · #**178** 11-12-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

Some of these folks like me have way to many memories and ties to the building. My grandfather had to put his name on the mortgage as one of the board members. People died building that church. So in my opinion they have every right to disagree with some egotistical man from California who has been in this city for 4 years. That building has been a symbol of the UPC not only in our city but throughout the entire south. So I think if you will not fight for something that you put forth blood sweat and tears into and something that is tangible you will be to spineless to fight for anything.

I feel sorry for your situation but the truth is that the building is the only thing y'all are fighting over. What if the church hadn't been UPC all these years? What if there was no heritage or legacy? I somehow don't think any of you guys would be worried.

The truth is that your families suffered to build a church that will never be the same again. You have great memories or years gone by that will never ever be the same. I can promise that after this situation it will take years to rebuild if ever.

I am sure we aren't getting the full story and probably never will but the names and faces are different but this is very common. To rebuild this church will need a very strong leader and a man who is not selfish but I seriously doubt the church could attract anyone decent at this stage of the game.

aak1972 · #**179** 11-12-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

I don't know what makes the difference - maybe it's the way your church corporation is set up. But our deacons have never been personally financially responsible for notes they have signed, according to our bank.

In my business I have seen many foreclosures. Legally if the lender wants to pursue any guarantor they can. That does not mean they will.

deltaguitar · #**180** 11-12-2008, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

No not at all. The board members that voted to stay UPC were kicked off. He said from the pulpit they were evil b/c they didnt support him. So since they are not board members they want off the loan.

Look, let me give you some advice. All the board members should leave. Obviously they are the ones who are supporting the church anyway. Go across town and start a nondenominational church that is out to minister to your community. Get a decent liberal pastor who is solid on biblical principals and basically go charismatic. In five years y'all will be running a thousand and you will look back at the last 30 years wondering why y'all spent so much energy on a building.

This is what we are doing. There is no greater satisfaction than knowing you aren't tied to a bunch of folks who only care about their perceived legacy in the UPC.