Considering the organization Papa Leon was a part of, there isn't much of a chance for a real encounter with Jesus.
TV, that is a ridiculous statement. Perhaps you need to think bigger than whatever experiences you have had. Perhaps a global perspective may help. I need to take you on the mission field with me so you can see some of the things that are being accomplished that would not be possible at this time without said organization.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
It's disgusting to me how so many people around here who used to be UPC, and got saved in the UPC, still have outrageously and gratuitously negative things to say about the denomination even many years after leaving.
I see it over and over again on this forum. It's as if there's a residual bitterness that they cant let go of. It's very sad to me.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I didn't think the posts was that unclear or contradictory. I didn't shut the door completely. The assumption was made these boys did not have a "Real Encounter" with God. I mentioned it is difficult, not impossible for people to have a "Real Encounter" with Christ in that organiziation. The other posts said if the band had an encounter with Jesus, it was smothered by religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
But isn't that what you are suggesting? That there wasn't much of a chance for a real encounter with Jesus? Incredible!
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
It's disgusting to me how so many people around here who used to be UPC, and got saved in the UPC, still have outrageously and gratuitously negative things to say about the denomination even many years after leaving.
I see it over and over again on this forum. It's as if there's a residual bitterness that they cant let go of. It's very sad to me.
I know it is extremely disheartening, and I don't doubt that you have seen it over and over on this forum. But to be fair, on this thread it has only been ONE person and everyone else has disagreed, called him on it and given their personal testimony to contradict it.
I will add mine. I had a very real encounter with Jesus in a UPC church and I am so thankful for it.
Ironic how people are bitter when they mention the fatal flaws the upci yet the same people who accuse others of being better always have negative things to say about churches who grow outside the upci paradigm, even if the church believes in Acts 2:38.
It's okay for district officials to lie and slander others. It's okay for men of prominence to revise history and ignore the fact that many of the founding fathers had different opinions?
Is it bitterness to point out the upci of today is nothing like the upci of the merger?
Is it bitterness to point out the upci didn't have a dress code in its original manual?
Is it bitterness to point out the preachers caught in sexual sins are usually given nothing more than what is equivelent to an in school suspension, if that much while they ask for preachers licenses if they don't preach a subjective dress code for salvation?
I have been in almost evey state east of the Mississippi River, and a few on the other side. Any objective person would agree the upci today is not the same as it was at the merger.
If the upci is supposed to be the standard bearer for revival, why is the average attendance of the North American upci church considerably less than 100 members? The largest segment of upci churches have between 40-80 members. There aren't that many 'daughter churches' in the upci.
The last set of numbers I've seen, if it were not for the foreign numbers, the upci would have less members than the Seventh Day Adventists.
I am honored to be lumped in with other bitter former upci'ers such as Rhoni, Timlan, Daniel A., Bill Price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance
It's disgusting to me how so many people around here who used to be UPC, and got saved in the UPC, still have outrageously and gratuitously negative things to say about the denomination even many years after leaving.
I see it over and over again on this forum. It's as if there's a residual bitterness that they cant let go of. It's very sad to me.
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
I can understand on initial review of posts how it could seem contradictiory. It appears the little window of opportunity I gave in my original post wasn't caught.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
well it does seem contradictory.
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
I already said this once, but I'll say it again: Your recent personal experiences are tainting your posts and opinions with excessive cynicism and even bitterness. If you can't clean it up, eventually no one will give any credence to anything you post.
Ironic how people are bitter when they mention the fatal flaws the upci yet the same people who accuse others of being better always have negative things to say about churches who grow outside the upci paradigm, even if the church believes in Acts 2:38.
It's okay for district officials to lie and slander others. It's okay for men of prominence to revise history and ignore the fact that many of the founding fathers had different opinions?
Is it bitterness to point out the upci of today is nothing like the upci of the merger?
Is it bitterness to point out the upci didn't have a dress code in its original manual?
Is it bitterness to point out the preachers caught in sexual sins are usually given nothing more than what is equivelent to an in school suspension, if that much while they ask for preachers licenses if they don't preach a subjective dress code for salvation?
I have been in almost evey state east of the Mississippi River, and a few on the other side. Any objective person would agree the upci today is not the same as it was at the merger.
If the upci is supposed to be the standard bearer for revival, why is the average attendance of the North American upci church considerably less than 100 members? The largest segment of upci churches have between 40-80 members. There aren't that many 'daughter churches' in the upci.
The last set of numbers I've seen, if it were not for the foreign numbers, the upci would have less members than the Seventh Day Adventists.
I am honored to be lumped in with other bitter former upci'ers such as Rhoni, Timlan, Daniel A., Bill Price.
I dont know if that part above (in bold) is supposed to be referring to me or not, but since that comment was made in response to my post, I'm well aware that it could be. If it is, then perhaps you're sadly mistaken and/or misinformed as to what my sentiments are regarding that topic.
It know for sure that I dont speak negatively of "churches that grow up outside the UPCI paradigm, even if they believe in Acts 2:38". I have said many times that to me, apostolic is apostolic, whether they are UPCI or not. I think I've expressed that pretty clearly on this forum more than a few times.
As for all that other UPCI-related stuff youve chosen to speak about there, there's no need for me to get into any of that stuff. I'll just leave that alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joyful
I know it is extremely disheartening, and I don't doubt that you have seen it over and over on this forum. But to be fair, on this thread it has only been ONE person and everyone else has disagreed, called him on it and given their personal testimony to contradict it.
I will add mine. I had a very real encounter with Jesus in a UPC church and I am so thankful for it.
Indeed, Joyful, my comment was triggered by the comment of one person on this thread. But the comment is simply a reaction to a pretty frequent practice that has become predictable and tiresome around here. On certain certain threads you can almost count on certain folks to come by with some form of anti-UPC negativity. Its not just Tv1a; there are a bunch of others who are the same way, and some others are actually much worse. After a while the predictable sarcastic, broad-brush, embittered, UPCI-bashing comments just get very old.
If these people feel God has brought them "across the bridge" , so to speak, into something better... then fine. Be grateful for that and move on and live for God. That's how I see it. But clearly some of these folks simply wont, or cant, just move on. Some of these folks seem to spend as much time looking back as looking forward. What purpose does it serve to be constantly taking shots at the UPC if they've moved on?
And if someone still hasnt been able to really "move on" even after many years, then maybe the best place for them to work that out with God in a prayer closet, not an internet forum.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
Hundreds of thousands of people have had very real encounters with Jesus through the UPCI. It's just plain crazy to attempt to discredit that.
I already said this once, but I'll say it again: Your recent personal experiences are tainting your posts and opinions with excessive cynicism and even bitterness. If you can't clean it up, eventually no one will give any credence to anything you post.
Amen! Thank you for saying what I have been feeling for a while!
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