Can you name any credible scholarship that dates Revelation before 70 AD? I have never heard until now that ANYONE dated Revelation pre-70 AD. I can certainly see why you all would have to do that because it would topple the whole house of cards, regardless of all the other interpretations in other books.
Did my list satisfy you?
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Can you name any credible scholarship that dates Revelation before 70 AD? I have never heard until now that ANYONE dated Revelation pre-70 AD. I can certainly see why you all would have to do that because it would topple the whole house of cards, regardless of all the other interpretations in other books.
Nice comic Deacon, is that supposed to apply to us, or to you?
Deacon, why is Revelation 11:1-2 speaking of a temple? If the temple was already destroyed why mention it? Also why mention that the Gentiles would trample down the outer court for 3 1/2 years, when that would of been 20 year old history to the reader. You always have to keep in mind that this document of the Revelation of Jesus, was read by people living in the latter part of the first century. The letter was for them, it wasn't meant to be a tease. The proverb says hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Thousands of years have past already, and the Jews were only in Babylon for 70 years. Yet, futurists have a scenario that stretches on forever and ever, with a path littered with failed guess work.
"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
In Matthew 16:28, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Was Jesus emphasizing that some of them would still be alive and witness the so-called judgment of 70 AD?
This is not what Jesus was saying! In this verse, Jesus was referring to His transfiguration, which would take place six days later (Matthew 17:1-5). On that day, He took Peter, James and John. It was then that they beheld His glory and His majesty, when His face shone like the sun. Peter, who was there, indicates in II Peter 1:16-18 that, at this holy mount, they witnessed the "power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" as follows:
"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. (17) For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, WHEN WE WERE WITH HIM IN THE HOLY MOUNT."
__________________
When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
In Matthew 16:28, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Was Jesus emphasizing that some of them would still be alive and witness the so-called judgment of 70 AD?
This is not what Jesus was saying! In this verse, Jesus was referring to His transfiguration, which would take place six days later (Matthew 17:1-5). On that day, He took Peter, James and John. It was then that they beheld His glory and His majesty, when His face shone like the sun. Peter, who was there, indicates in II Peter 1:16-18 that, at this holy mount, they witnessed the "power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" as follows:
"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. (17) For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, WHEN WE WERE WITH HIM IN THE HOLY MOUNT."
I respect that view DB, as far as I know, you very well could be correct. I have heard that view before.
Please answer this previous post per your opinion:
Do you feel that Jesus was referring, in any way, to the destruction of Jerusulem in AD 70, when he said this:
Mark 13:2-4 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
__________________ As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14
In Matthew 16:28, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Was Jesus emphasizing that some of them would still be alive and witness the so-called judgment of 70 AD?
This is not what Jesus was saying! In this verse, Jesus was referring to His transfiguration, which would take place six days later (Matthew 17:1-5). On that day, He took Peter, James and John. It was then that they beheld His glory and His majesty, when His face shone like the sun. Peter, who was there, indicates in II Peter 1:16-18 that, at this holy mount, they witnessed the "power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" as follows:
"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. (17) For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, WHEN WE WERE WITH HIM IN THE HOLY MOUNT."
I disagree.
Jesus emphasized the fact that BEFORE SOME of them DIE they would see this coming. That means that there was going to pass enough time that some might wonder if it ever happens, and perhaps not see it until a short time before they die, while others hearing him that day would have died. If he meant next week at the transfiguration, then in order for him to emphasize the fact they would not die before it happens necessitates that his audience was either so old that it was questionable they would survive another week, or else they were very old people who might not live quite over another week.
Again, he emphasized SOME would not die before this happens.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
In Matthew 16:28, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Was Jesus emphasizing that some of them would still be alive and witness the so-called judgment of 70 AD?
This is not what Jesus was saying! In this verse, Jesus was referring to His transfiguration, which would take place six days later (Matthew 17:1-5). On that day, He took Peter, James and John. It was then that they beheld His glory and His majesty, when His face shone like the sun. Peter, who was there, indicates in II Peter 1:16-18 that, at this holy mount, they witnessed the "power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" as follows:
"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. (17) For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, WHEN WE WERE WITH HIM IN THE HOLY MOUNT."
This promise of Jesus' coming to fulfill all the promises of reconciliation for mankind is found in the statement that the heavenly voice pronounced at the Mount of Transfiguration. One well-known Dispensational teacher used this happening as an explanation why in Matthew 16:28, Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." According to him, this coming, happened just a few days later at the Mount of Transfiguration. There are more than a few problems with his contention:
1. Jesus would have seemed foolish to have prophesied such a thing. Imagine a man standing in a congregation and proclaiming, "Thus saith the Lord; there are some here that will not die in the next few days." Most would have said, "Yeah, anyone here could have safely said the same thing…so big deal!" It becomes even more ludicrous when you realize the Bible records no tragedy or unusual incident occurring that caused any of “those standing there” to die before the experience at the Mount of Transfiguration took place.
2. Biblically speaking, such a position is completely inconsistent with the other clear "soon coming" statements found elsewhere in the Bible. When Jesus said "soon," for Him to remain honest, He must have meant "soon," and not some thousands of years later.
3. Such a position makes light of Jesus saying that some hearing His words would then not die until they saw Him coming into His Kingdom. Such a statement is filled with references to death and glory. For it to simply be for those on the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus' statement would then only include three men: Peter, James, and John. This would exclude all the other apostles, disciples, and mankind from witnessing when and how Jesus’ coming would occur.
The Bible tells us why the Mount of Transfiguration took place. It was so Peter, James, and John could better understand that Jesus was the redeemer promised from the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets, and so that they could later testify about this to increase man's faith in Jesus (See Matthew 17:9). As the voice of God spoke at this meeting, it confirmed that Jesus was the One who was to fulfill all the biblical prophecies regarding the Messiah. The following is what Matthew recorded:
Matthew 17:5
(15) While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
To the Jewish mind these words meant something more than just a heavenly exchange between God and man. They recognized that within this proclamation are three snippets of scripture that reference the three divisions of the Old Testament—the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms. While the voice of God spoke, the Apostles saw ELIJAH (who represented the PROPHETS), MOSES (who represented the LAW), and JESUS (who was the heir to the throne of the PSALMIST KING DAVID). These three made up the biblical requirement of three witnesses to establish a truth of God (See Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1).
The first of these is when this voice said, "MY SON." This statement was referring to a Messianic prophecy found in the Psalms and was applied to Jesus in Acts.
Psalms 2:7
(7) I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Acts 13:33
(33) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Similarly, "WELL PLEASED," was referencing Jesus as He is described by the Prophets and was applied to Jesus in Matthew.
Isaiah 42:1
(1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth [well pleased]; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Matthew 12:18
(18) Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.
The command to "LISTEN TO HIM," was spoken by the Law giver, Moses. In Acts, Luke wrote that this command is to be applied to Jesus Christ.
Deuteronomy 18:15
(15) The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;[Listen]
Acts 7:37
(37) This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
__________________
The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere. -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03
FERD,
Do not try to cover your connection to all this.
I just did a quick "evaluation" of your name...amazing.
FERD
F is the 6th letter of the alphabet.
E the 5th
R the 18th
D the 4th
Add all these together and what do you get? 33! (How old was Jesus when he began his ministry?)
Take 33 plus the 4 letters in your name equals 37.
Take 37 and divide it by 6 and you get 6.16666!!
The "1" is there just to throw off the "uninformed" because you are the 1!!
And you act as if we are not on to you.
LOL! I left before seeing this! GREATNESS!
Thanks for the great laugh!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
New Heaven and New Earth: The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. As a result, the former heaven (the Jewish Temple) and the former earth (the place the Temple sat, Jerusalem) is now replaced by a New Temple (the Holy Ghost in the redeemed) and a New Earth (the New Jerusalem, which is the Church, the City sitting on a hill that shines as a beacon of light to the world). Jesus said this transformation would happen at the passing of the Old Covenant's Law system: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Mat 5:18). So, if we do not currently have a new heaven and a new earth, we would consequently still be under every stipulation of the Law, including animal sacrifice for salvation. (See Mat 5:14; Isa 28:16; 1 Pet 2:4-6; Joh 2:19-21; Eph 5:19-22; Rev 21:1-21)
TK, are you a full or a partial preterist?
Is the position you stated [above] shared by both full and partial preterists?
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
TK, are you a full or a partial preterist?
Is the position you stated [above] shared by both full and partial preterists?
As a partial preterist, I know this view is consistent with all full preterists, but not all partial preterists.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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