Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrine?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Regarding Op's Vinson Synan, the leading Scholar who studies all Pentecostal Denominiations, Movements and Streams currently reports that Oneness Pentecostals have the highest percentage of people who claim the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the intial evidence doctrine. Upwards of 90%. So there is some credible scholarship and stats for this percentage.

That sounds about right.

I've been a member of 3 churches in my life, and there are several others I've visited quite often, to the point that I got a good feel for where they're at in terms of how the Holy Ghost moves there... and I'd put the number at about 90-95+ percent in each of those places.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Delta,

Their own leadership is concerned about this, they realized they are leaning more and more towards mainstream Evangelicism. Read their blogs and websites of their leadership,they see the handwriting on the wall, they will in short time will stop being a Pentecostal Denomination.

Regarding Op's Vinson Synan, the leading Scholar who studies all Pentecostal Denominiations, Movements and Streams currently reports that Oneness Pentecostals have the highest percentage of people who claim the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the intial evidence doctrine. Upwards of 90%. So there is some credible scholarship and stats for this percentage.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

That sounds about right.

I've been a member of 3 churches in my life, and there are several others I've visited quite often, to the point that I got a good feel for where they're at in terms of how the Holy Ghost moves there... and I'd put the number at about 90-95+ percent in each of those places.

I tend to disagree. Just because someone was told they spoke in tongues or got shook real hard doesn't mean they really spoke in tongues. In my old church they would have counted me in the tongue talking group because there was no way I was admitting I wasn't saved. It took me a long time to admit this.

I honestly don't think that I ever really spoke in tongues though I might have had stammering lips yet I along with another large number of "one-time" tongues talkers would be put in the tongue talker category.

I do agree that UPC churches probably have more of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost happening in their churches though. Lately I have been to the local Church of God and they are very similar to UPC in that they try to force the issue more. They do not want to lose their heritage of being Pentecostal.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I tend to disagree. Just because someone was told they spoke in tongues or got shook real hard doesn't mean they really spoke in tongues. In my old church they would have counted me in the tongue talking group because there was no way I was admitting I wasn't saved. It took me a long time to admit this.

I honestly don't think that I ever really spoke in tongues though I might have had stammering lips yet I along with another large number of "one-time" tongues talkers would be put in the tongue talker category.

I do agree that UPC churches probably have more of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost happening in their churches though. Lately I have been to the local Church of God and they are very similar to UPC in that they try to force the issue more. They do not want to lose their heritage of being Pentecostal.

You tend to disagree on that? No surprise really. But disagree with what though?

....That Vinson Synan's studies lead him to conclude that 90% of Oneness folks profess the Baptism of the Holy Ghost speaking with tongues?
...Or you disagree with the fact that in the churches I've been in, from my observation 90-95% had the Holy Ghost?

Either way...ok. So you think the number is closer to 50%. Fine. But that's an opinion, which you're entitled to, just like anyone else's opinions here.

However, it's clear to me that your opinion on this is shaped by:
1/ your own personal observation and experience , and/or
2/ Your own negativity toward mainline Oneness/UPC churches (which you've expressed quite often).

So if I had to go with either your number or Vinson Synan's, I'd think Mr Synan's number is probably closer to the correct figure.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

You tend to disagree on that? No surprise really. But disagree with what though?

....That Vinson Synan's studies lead him to conclude that 90% of Oneness folks profess the Baptism of the Holy Ghost speaking with tongues?
...Or you disagree with the fact that in the churches I've been in, from my observation 90-95% had the Holy Ghost?

Either way...ok. So you think the number is closer to 50%. Fine. But that's an opinion, which you're entitled to, just like anyone else's opinions here.

However, it's clear to me that your opinion on this is shaped by:
1/ your own personal observation and experience , and/or
2/ Your own negativity toward mainline Oneness/UPC churches (which you've expressed quite often).

So if I had to go with either your number or Vinson Synan's, I'd think Mr Synan's number is probably closer to the correct figure.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Just typing fast. I disagree that 90% of UPC members speak in tongues on a regular basis. Maybe they have spoken in tongues at one time but cease to do so on a regular basis now.

While there may be many who "profess" speaking in tongues, this could be caused by the fact that it is taught that speaking in tongues is necessary to be saved. I think I would profess it too!

Also, I am sure there are many who wept and cried but didn't speak in tongues but because they showed enough emotion that they were told they got the Holy Ghost. I think there are many here that would agree that this happens at times when the minister proclaims someone "got it" and everyone around knows that person didn't speak in tongues. We have to be honest about this.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Just typing fast. I disagree that 90% of UPC members speak in tongues on a regular basis. Maybe they have spoken in tongues at one time but cease to do so on a regular basis now.

Ok. fine. Thanks for clarifying.

But I think you and Keith are talking about 2 different things.

Keith said:

"Regarding Op's Vinson Synan, the leading Scholar who studies all Pentecostal Denominiations, Movements and Streams currently reports that Oneness Pentecostals have the highest percentage of people who claim the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the intial evidence doctrine.Upwards of 90%. So there is some credible scholarship and stats for this percentage."

He was talking about OP's who've received the initial baptism of the Spirit with accompanying tongues, not necessarily those who speak with tongues on a regular basis.

I think many/most of us have witnessed people clearly speaking in tongues when they got filled with the Holy Ghost... and some of them have rarely spoken in tongues afterward, while some others pray in tongues daily.