Kings of Leon

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by aak1972

My father told me when he was young and travelling around with his father while he evangelized the jumping and screaming was not an issue. In fact if anyone jumped and screamed when being prayed for they would first think it was due to the devil in that person not wanting to come out. I think there is way too much emphasis placed on how someone worships in church especially teenagers. I do however believe that faking the screaming and jumping etc...... is a generational thing. This was uncommon in the 50's and 60's when my father was growing up in church.

I believe you are right as far as the UPC is concerned. In fact, in the book "Christianity Without the Cross," the author sites one particular high ranking UPC minister who didn't believe in all the shouting and would stare at the shouters in an intimidating way.

Somewhere along the way we got hype and excitement crossed up with the moving of the Holy Spirit, strong doctrinal preaching became Acts 2:38 and Oneness instead of Justification by faith and sanctification, holiness became uncut hair and jean skirts and what WE did instead of us living in Christ and him in us, and convincing an unsuspecting drunk homeless man to get baptized in the park became the status symbol of a revival church.

It is time for us to get back to the power of the cross and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

Nice. Blame a whole organization for the direction taken by one group of preachers kids.

From someone that knows this family personally, you need to wake up and smell the coffee if you think the "UPCI" is to blame for this "talented" group that now sings about sex, drugs, and their former life.

I don't think anyone is blaming the UPC for these guys. They are a great band musically and if anything the UPC could try to take credit for their talent.

You could go to any other religious group and find the exact same story.

However, there are stestemic problems withing the UPC and Pentecostalism regarding strong biblical teaching and understanding of the Bible among the generations that have grown up within this movement.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

Nice. Blame a whole organization for the direction taken by one group of preachers kids.

From someone that knows this family personally, you need to wake up and smell the coffee if you think the "UPCI" is to blame for this "talented" group that now sings about sex, drugs, and their former life.

How about that!!
A well-needed injection of common sense.
Thank you, LadyRev

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

It might not be the ministries fault that they aren't in church today. However, it is absolutely the ministries fault for putting hype ahead of the gospel. We weren't taught anything growing up but Acts 2:38, standards, the oneness of God, and how everybody else was wrong. The whole point here is that there were many who were not able to fake it enough to get accepted into the Pentecostal group and therefore were not spiritual.

I was actually at a church in Vicksburg, Mississippi a few years ago and the guy preached a message titled, "Only the Shouters Survive." I couldn't believe it. Our youth were horrified and then our own youth pastor got up at this rally and blasted his youth for not SHOUTING enough. At least half of that group is no longer Pentecostal and most are as backslid as you can get. They were hurt and didn't understand what was going and why they weren't good enough because they weren't acting like fools.

What we are finding later is that these kids just give up because they cannot do what their church requires of them. I know very few who are able to go on and have a healthy relationship with God after being Pentecostal and giving up. Usually they horribly backslide because it isn't possible in their eyes.

Some, and I have heard testimonies, make it to a healthy church and are able to survive but only after they completely leave.

I was raised in a UPC church not an hour from the one you mentioned and it was not about hype or shouting (my church)....it wasnt perfect but it wasnt all shouting and Acts 2:38. if anything it was well balanced teaching and preaching. We had our problems but we had the best available in other areas.

folks got out of it what they put into it.

Are there churches in MS that are all hype? SURE there are, can you say understatment? I also think there is a huge amount of personal responsibilty here....if a person is praying and studying their bible, you know, that whole "personal" relationship aspect....they will outgrow their current congregation. They will see past the hype and shouting and look for real substance elsewhere.

the only blame I can see due to the churches themselves is if the teaching isnt there for the new converts - how will they know unless they are told?


again, this isnt an organizational problem, it's not even a "pentecostal" problem...folks go to all kinds of churches every sunday across the world and they have no idea why they do what they do nor does their experience go past the doors of the church

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

Nice. Blame a whole organization for the direction taken by one group of preachers kids.

From someone that knows this family personally, you need to wake up and smell the coffee if you think the "UPCI" is to blame for this "talented" group that now sings about sex, drugs, and their former life.

Once again I am not blaming anyone. Why the offense when questioned? This is the case 75% of the time when anyone questions anything about all the jumping screaming faking etc etc............. Maybe someone who knows them personally offended them so bad they now have to sing about what they now love sex and drugs. I was just offering theories on why these kids are now doing what they do. The situations I was talking about are just things I have seen and been a part of.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I don't think anyone is blaming the UPC for these guys. They are a great band musically and if anything the UPC could try to take credit for their talent.

You could go to any other religious group and find the exact same story.

However, there are stestemic problems withing the UPC and Pentecostalism regarding strong biblical teaching and understanding of the Bible among the generations that have grown up within this movement.

Truth is, if they had been from "any other religious group" they wouldn't be talked about near as much, if at all, on AFF or anywhere else.

No one would be shocked by their behavior if they came from any other religious group other than UPCI or similar apostolic group.

Once again, there are facts involved here that go much farther and much deeper than any "religious group".

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

Truth is, if they had been from "any other religious group" they wouldn't be talked about near as much, if at all, on AFF or anywhere else.

No one would be shocked by their behavior if they came from any other religious group other than UPCI or similar apostolic group.

Once again, there are facts involved here that go much farther and much deeper than any "religious group".

I dont think anyone is shocked but a few people in the UPC!!

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

Truth is, if they had been from "any other religious group" they wouldn't be talked about near as much, if at all, on AFF or anywhere else.

No one would be shocked by their behavior if they came from any other religious group other than UPCI or similar apostolic group.

Once again, there are facts involved here that go much farther and much deeper than any "religious group".

The only reason anyone knows where they come from is because these guys mention that they are from a backwoods religious sect in Rolling Stone Magazine. They claim that the growing up sheltered has helped their creativity and made for a very interesting childhood.

I have listened to two of their latest albums and consider them to be the best band I have heard in a long time as far as creativity. No one is blaming their specifics on the UPC except them.

[aak1972]

I want to know whats the shocking part? That they love sex and drugs? That shouldnt shock anyone. I know dozens of ex UPC youth that love sex and drugs. These kids are just talented enough to become popular and sing about it. If I had that talent I would probably be a country singer singing about my divorce and lost doublewide.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by aak1972

My father told me when he was young and travelling around with his father while he evangelized the jumping and screaming was not an issue. In fact if anyone jumped and screamed when being prayed for they would first think it was due to the devil in that person not wanting to come out. I think there is way too much emphasis placed on how someone worships in church especially teenagers. I do however believe that faking the screaming and jumping etc...... is a generational thing. This was uncommon in the 50's and 60's when my father was growing up in church.

The funny thing is I have heard Michael English talk about how he faked worship when he would sing with his family while growing up, because if he didn't raise his hand or testify when he was on stage, he knew he was going to get beat later on. He certainly was not raised in the UPC.

It is hardly a isolated thing for people to "fake" their worship or experience with God we have seen countless preachers of various denominations fall and testify later that they were living a lie. It isn't a denomination or generational thing, it is a human frailty thing, and we are all capable of it.