Some opinions wanted - Page 3

gloryseeker · #21 12-07-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

I walked out of a pennycostul church once over thirty years ago...it was an absolute zoo fof idiots.

Today I am more careful of what church I walk into

As for offerings. We at my church DO NOT take up offering or evne mention it.

Our Congrgation knows that the wooden boxes attached to the back walls on either side of the doors are where the offering goes.

We only pass the plate on the first Sunday of the month for our misionary pledges and that with instruction to our guests that they feel no obligation to give.

You all want to be APOSTOLIC ????? Please then , find where they ever passed offering plates in every gathering

While that sounds good, faith comes by hearing and having a box in the back robs the people of faith for God's system of financial provision.

SDG · #22 12-07-2008, 07:21 PM

Isn't JR (IAM) on a cruise THIS WEEK?

Margies3 · #23 12-07-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

While that sounds good, faith comes by hearing and having a box in the back robs the people of faith for God's system of financial provision.

How does having a box in the back rob the people of faith?

Because someone isn't standing at the front saying, "Will the ushers please come forward now to take up the offering." ???

I don't know. I may be dense. But I don't think I'm that dense! If our faith is only built up by someone preaching on the importance of giving tithes and offerings, what kind of faith is that? Sounds like the kind of faith that says, "If I give to God, then He is required to give back to me." Hmmmm.

There is a local Apostolic church near here that does their offerings this way. Every now and then, on a Wednesday night Bible study night, the pastor will teach on Biblical giving (tithes and offerings). Other than that, the box is there. Seems to work for them

Sam · #24 12-07-2008, 07:26 PM

First thought that came to me was Matthew 15:14, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind." Just leave them alone with their silly games. Don't bother going back there again.

That seemed pretty harsh.

Maybe the second thought is better. You've just seen some more of our (we've probably all done dumb things like this) Apostolic/Pentecostal stupidity that is offensive to some and that causes the "world" to make fun of us. No wonder people leave and don't come back.

gloryseeker · #25 12-07-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margies3

How does having a box in the back rob the people of faith?

Because someone isn't standing at the front saying, "Will the ushers please come forward now to take up the offering." ???

I don't know. I may be dense. But I don't think I'm that dense! If our faith is only built up by someone preaching on the importance of giving tithes and offerings, what kind of faith is that? Sounds like the kind of faith that says, "If I give to God, then He is required to give back to me." Hmmmm.

There is a local Apostolic church near here that does their offerings this way. Every now and then, on a Wednesday night Bible study night, the pastor will teach on Biblical giving (tithes and offerings). Other than that, the box is there. Seems to work for them

It is very simple. According to the Bible there is only one way that faith comes (Rom 10:17), by hearing the Word.

Now, if someone says, "Ushers come up and pass the plates" you are absolutely right, no faith will come. But if someone takes a few minutes and exhorts from the Word why we are to give then according to the Word faith will come.

Too often, the focus of "offering time" is about the church getting the money it needs to operate. Tithes and offerings is a time of worship. It is a way we honor God and when faith comes and we give according to how God designed His system there are many promises that will manifest in our life.

Having a box in the back and nothing being said about giving robs people of the Word, the opportunity, and the reason we give.

Hoovie · #26 12-07-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Isn't JR (IAM) on a cruise THIS WEEK?

U R NUTS! Cruel, heartless, calloused, and crazy. Wish I'd have said that!

RandyWayne · #27 12-07-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

It is very simple. According to the Bible there is only one way that faith comes (Rom 10:17), by hearing the Word.

Now, if someone says, "Ushers come up and pass the plates" you are absolutely right, no faith will come. But if someone takes a few minutes and exhorts from the Word why we are to give then according to the Word faith will come.

Too often, the focus of "offering time" is about the church getting the money it needs to operate. Tithes and offerings is a time of worship. It is a way we honor God and when faith comes and we give according to how God designed His system there are many promises that will manifest in our life.

Having a box in the back and nothing being said about giving robs people of the Word, the opportunity, and the reason we give.

In the post your quoting, he DID mention that the pastor preaches on tithes and giving from time to time....

Margies3 · #28 12-07-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neck

************************************************** ******

The problem being take up one offering and trust the saints to appropriate the funds accordingly.

Many churches have gone to this multiple offering basket passing.

Because many churches do not have Sunday evening service to pass the basket the second time on Sunday.

Take up one offeing that is all we ask....

When is the last time someone in your church who was a saint was handed a trip for 2 to Alaska?
Last time I checked it was the saints in the church funding the operation...

I understand some smaller churches have the pastors investing in the operations...

But when the church grows there could be some appreciation.....

I see some lay folks in the church getting just as dirty as the pastor.

THANK YOU for recognizing this fact!! It seems like far too often, the saints who give their time and talents after they've worked their full 8-10 hours, are left with little or no recognition at all. NOT THAT WE DO THINGS FOR RECOGNITION. But it's nice to know that every now and then, someone sees what is going on.

I'm not opposed to rewarding a pastor. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate my pastor. We will give towards his Christmas bonus, as we have every year. We'll put in for his birthday gift and his wife's gift and sometimes even his kid's gifts. But at the same time, sometimes I think that if the pastor is making the same kind of salary as most of those in his congregation (which is true in many, many cases today. And should be true in all!), then if he wants to go on a vacation, shouldn't he be able to save money out of his salary to fund that vacation, just like I would have to do? Nobody's giving us a free trip anywhere.

And before you say, "oh but his job is 24/7", let me remind you that if you are married to a Volunteer Firefighter (as I am), he is on duty 24/7 as well. In fact, there have been more times than I can count that he has had to leave his regular paying job in order to come home and fight a fire. Then had to make up those hours on Saturday.

So yes, I'll give towards his Christmas gift, and his birthday gift if they do one. But no, I absolutely will not give towards a luxurious vacation for him. Sorry. That's just my humble opinion, for what it's worth

Sam · #29 12-07-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margies3

...
But at the same time, sometimes I think that if the pastor is making the same kind of salary as most of those in his congregation (which is true in many, many cases today. And should be true in all!), then if he wants to go on a vacation, shouldn't he be able to save money out of his salary to fund that vacation, just like I would have to do? Nobody's giving us a free trip anywhere.
...

So, how should a pastor's salary be determined?
At a figure that equals the average salary of the membership?
Slightly higher than the largest salary in the congregation?
Two, three, or ten times the average salary of the membership?

gloryseeker · #30 12-07-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

In the post your quoting, he DID mention that the pastor preaches on tithes and giving from time to time....

While in his last statement he mentions missionary giving, what he said was, "As for offerings. We at my church DO NOT take up offering or evne mention it."

I assume the misspell would be "even". They don't take up offerings or even mention offerings