TRANSCRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by StMark

Explain what you mean thanks

Well , you see, there is a diversity here among the anti-UPC crowd. There are those who are "respectfully" anti-UPC. They are concerned with the inner workings as ex-UPCers because they have family who are still there, they hold a great respect for some who are in the org, and to an extent it would not take a drastic change in order for them to return but it would take change non the less.

Then there is the anti-UPC crowd who entertain themselves with every little piece of dirt they can dredge up in order to shine their negative light on the org. These types really could care less about the UPC nor the people in it, they just simply get their kicks by belittling them because they have some self invented dellusion that we see ourselves as holier than they. Many claim there is a noble purpose founded in love for the people in the org and a desire to see them "free" yet their post and broad brush comments are transparent. One need not read between the lines to get the jest of the true spirit behind the words.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The only problem I have with what KH said is that the Bible DOES NOT teach receiving the Holy Ghost w/ speaking in tongues as something that is mandated for salvation.

The Holy Ghost is a promise, not a command.

If the Pentecostals and Charismatics could some how bridge this gap in scriptural understanding, then it would be a very good thing.

One thing is for sure, the Charismatics do not need to become legalistic to experience revival.

Neither do they have to become Oneness to experience a genuine revival from GOD ALMIGHTY!
(It would be nice if they did though )

But what your saying is going against the whole point of the meeting . (if I understand it correctly )

The Charismatics are wanting more of the Holy Ghost w/tongues experience.

Isn't that what the meeting was about ? I could be wrong.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by scotty

Well , you see, there is a diversity here among the anti-UPC crowd. There are those who are "respectfully" anti-UPC. They are concerned with the inner workings as ex-UPCers because they have family who are still there, they hold a great respect for some who are in the org, and to an extent it would not take a drastic change in order for them to return but it would take change non the less.

Then there is the anti-UPC crowd who entertain themselves with every little piece of dirt they can dredge up in order to shine their negative light on the org. These types really could care less about the UPC nor the people in it, they just simply get their kicks by belittling them because they have some self invented dellusion that we see ourselves as holier than they. Many claim there is a noble purpose founded in love for the people in the org and a desire to see them "free" yet their post and broad brush comments are transparent. One need not read between the lines to get the jest of the true spirit behind the words.

I don't think that everyone who has left UPC is "Anti UPC" however, I do believe that a lot of people who have left are hurt and bitter about something. It's comes thru loud and clear. I just pray that they will find healing and at some point, they can let it go and find peace.

I just wish that for those who don't want to be UPC or have left and have no desire to ever be apart of it will find a place that works for them and move on with their lives

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Why does KH seem to be concerned with CHARISMATICA?

because I can ...

The only reason I can think of for any Christian to be "concerned" with another group would be because they feel they need to be shown a more excellent way.

Weren't there some disciples somewhere who were shown more than what they had? Even though they were already believers?

I guess the trendy line of thought right now is, "If they believe in Jesus, move on and find 'real' sinners to witness to." LOL!!

I'm still of the frame of mind that we should be converting entire churches to baptism in Jesus' name and leading them into a Holy Ghost experience, so I'm hopelessly old fogeyish.

Furthermore, many of these anecdotal stories ARE true. I attended a trinitarian Christian school in high school, and I took a course in the Life of Christ. My principal was personally quizzing me for an upcoming test, and there was a question in regard to baptism. In order to answer it and get the right grade, I would have had to answer different from my beliefs, so I hesitated. He caught it, and quickly said, "It's okay, you don't have to put that down--most of us don't believe it quite like that anyway."

The point being--many trinitarians are living a theology they don't completely agree with--and THAT should change. If a group believes the name of Jesus has power, that there's really only One Sovereign God, and that the Holy Ghost is for today--then they should proclaim it. If Apostolics can encourage them to embrace such biblical truths--then they SHOULD.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by missbrattified

the only reason i can think of for any christian to be "concerned" with another group would be because they feel they need to be shown a more excellent way.

weren't there some disciples somewhere who were shown more than what they had?

I guess the trendy line of thought right now is, "if they believe in jesus, move on and find 'real' sinners to witness to." lol!!

I'm still of the frame of mind that we should be converting entire churches to baptism in jesus' name and leading them into a holy ghost experience, so i'm hopelessly old fogeyish.

exactly

and you are an old fogey ... Signed the Relevance Movement

[MissBrattified]

Bottom line: (for me)

When we accept trinitarian Christians for "who they are"--we toss away the idea that we should be instrumental in showing them more truth than they may have. I think that is ludicrous.

[ManOfWord]

NEWS FLASH!!!!


Point One:
The reason more people are receiving the HG in UPCI circles is that it is preached as a heaven or hell issue. In other words, it is preached that if you don't receive it, you're going to hell. Pretty good motivation, if you ask me to speak in tongues.

Point Two:
The reason the retention rate is low is the fact that discipleship consists more of outward standards than inward character.

When asked what "we" have that they don't, the answer should have been "We believe that it (HGB) is a REQUIREMENT" for salvation not simply a promise for believers who have been saved.

The "bridge" will never be built as long as the org as a whole stands upon the 3 step foundation because it is exclusive of everyone else, including those who have received the HGB and have not been baptized in Jesus' name.




Disclaimer: I'm not trying to resurrect the 1 vs 3 step debate. (or am I)

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Theresa

wouldnt there be more of them DEAD than concerned about church attendance?

ROFL!!! I didn't catch that!!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

exactly

and you are an old fogey ... Signed the Relevance Movement

Do you see a problem with that? If a person believes something firmly (as I'm sure Bro. Haney does), then they have a personal obligation to share it with those they feel are lost, or at least, lacking.

I really don't mind being an old fogey. Although, I think it's an odd descriptor for me, since I really am quite liberal. I wear yoga pants around my house after all.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Kind lady and sister,

We ... KH and I are referring to the Azusa celebration ... that took place not too long ago.

Ah...got it!