JP Don't Forget

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

The absolute truth! What the ultra-cons call "liberal" on this board is still extreme conservatism to most of Christianity!

In what ways would a 'liberal' Pentecostal be more conservative than most of Christianity?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Jim Yohe was in the vanguard of a new era of open communication among Oneness Pentecostals. The reality for all of us is that the world in which we live and serve God has been dramatically altered by the Internet, for the better and for the worse.

As Silent Service as said, Jim wanted a place for open discussion; in that respect Jim was a leader in dragging Oneness people into the Internet era. FCF was the first forum that I participated in, and had the privilege of posting with Jim Yohe there, but FCF wasn’t Jim’s first forum. My understanding was that Jim Yohe had started FCF because of the lack of opportunity for open discussion on other forums (I think that he held the “ban record” before he became Mr. FCF.)

In that respect, AFF is the forum that Jim Yohe began. Jim Yohe set out to challenge the status quo, to challenge preachers and saints alike to discuss, debate, and defend their views. I think that he had a passion to see the movement he loved move into the post modern era, and to provide a viable faith for the countless Jesus Name people that were and are struggling with traditions that don’t do well under Scriptural scrutiny.

Having said that, I think that FCF was not a sustainable experiment, due to several factors: one being that it challenged traditions that are much loved but that lack strong Scriptural foundations; and another being that it challenged preachers to meet questioners on equal footing without the weight of the pulpit or position. In the beginning, because it was new, people from every part of the spectrum of Oneness Pentecost joined the conversation with gusto, confident that they would convince others of their view of correct doctrine.

Although my saying so will probably be dismissed as merely partisan rhetoric, the traditional positions, particularly concerning standards, have not fared well in forum discussions. The lines of reasoning and theological grounds for many of the standards that Jim Yohe set out to challenge have not been successful in convincing questioners. This has caused many who hold to the traditional positions to withdraw from open discussion, believing that the end result of open conversation is to see people depart from standards.

It has somehow become popular to claim offence as a reason for withdrawing from this forum. In reality, neither side of the lib/con divide has any right to claim the high moral ground in terms of attitude and posting style, and the claim of “offence” as a reason for leaving looks like a smokescreen to those left behind. There is undeniable peer pressure among the more conservative brethren not to post here, and those who have posted have felt compelled to justify their being here to their peers.

In conclusion (Don’t you hate long posts? I rarely read them), the conservatives are doing their cause and the seekers who show up here a disservice by withdrawing into their closed forums. I feel, as did Jim Yohe, that it is important that there be a strong Acts 2:38 voice on the Internet. Young people in this day look to the Internet as one of their primary sources of information, and, when they ask questions, their first response is to click for answers. If the Acts 2:38 message is only proclaimed behind impenetrable barriers young people will be the first to miss the message. The reality of this day is that many people, and they’re not all young, are questioning standards, and they are going to show up here with their questions. If the conservatives withdraw from the conversation, the only answers that the questioners are going to find are going to be liberal opinions.

This forum, and the twenty first century, may not be a comfortable place for conservatives, but an important part of the battle for the heart and mind of this generation is going to be fought on the bandwidth battlefield. I would appeal to the conservative brethren not to abandon the battleground.

(Please excuse any typos and the garbled syntax. This post is too long for me to proofread without being put to sleep through the monotonous cadence of my own laboured and belaboured sentences.)

Exactly, my thoughts.

I don't understand the ones who hold the strongest stance or the quickest to leave. If your strong enough to hold to your beliefs why aren't you strong enough to stay and defend?

You say libs are making fun of your stance. I don't see that. I see their opinions differ from the uc and Cons. I see myself as a moderate and agree with both sides of different issues.

I also think another issue, is many of the ones leaving have been on forums a long time and have gotten bored with the same ole same ole stuff. But the new people finding the forums have all these same questions they are looking for answers too. But soon they will only have moderate to lib answers, if all the cons and ucons leave.

I say stand up and let your beliefs be counted.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Cindy is an Antilabelist.

LOL!!

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

In what ways would a 'liberal' Pentecostal be more conservative than most of Christianity?

I'll use myself as an example:

1. I don't smoke or drink
2. I don't wear jewelry besides a wedding ring and watch.
3. No tattoos
4. I vote Republican
5. I don't have a potty mouth.
6. I dress conservatively, compared to the general population
7. I believe baptism is required for all believers
8. I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost w/ speaking in tongues
9. I believe a Christian will live his life as if he represents Christ himself
10. I attend church on a regular basis.
11. I pay tithes.

[EA]

It has been said that time proves all things, and I, for one, believe it's true.

In hindsight, over the past two years, I can see that a lot of damage can occur through online interaction. I admit that I have no idea why caused this particular thread, but it appears to be a general angst concerning www.justpreachers.com. It appears that some of us are upset that men who comprise that forum have a negative opinion of AFF and what goes on here. It appears that some of us are upset at the things they say about AFF.

Truth is, we are hurt by what has been said. It bothers us. But (and I say this with as much love as I can muster) it does not bother us enough to consider our own actions. It does not bother us enough to consider that they may actually be justified in their feelings. No, we would rather paint them as ultraconservative meanies who leave because they are too intellectually challenged here to stay. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, no one like their beliefs trashed. NO ONE. But that is what happens, and it happens often throughout all of the Pentecostal forums. We engage in a funky sort of verbal nuclear combat - just so we can say that we won the war.

Many of us realize the power AFF weilds. This is not some outdated periodical people use to decorate their coffee table. This is the most powerful media in all of Oneness Pentecostalism. That is why what is posted here actually matters.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

It has been said that time proves all things, and I, for one, believe it's true.

In hindsight, over the past two years, I can see that a lot of damage can occur through online interaction. I admit that I have no idea why caused this particular thread, but it appears to be a general angst concerning www.justpreachers.com. It appears that some of us are upset that men who comprise that forum have a negative opinion of AFF and what goes on here. It appears that some of us are upset at the things they say about AFF.

Truth is, we are hurt by what has been said. It bothers us. But (and I say this with as much love as I can muster) it does not bother us enough to consider our own actions. It does not bother us enough to consider that they may actually be justified in their feelings. No, we would rather paint them as ultraconservative meanies who leave because they are too intellectually challenged here to stay. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, no one like their beliefs trashed. NO ONE. But that is what happens, and it happens often throughout all of the Pentecostal forums. We engage in a funky sort of verbal nuclear combat - just so we can say that we won the war.

Many of us realize the power AFF weilds. This is not some outdated periodical people use to decorate their coffee table. This is the most powerful media in all of Oneness Pentecostalism. That is why what is posted here actually matters.

I agree that there has been mud-slinging in both directions on this forum. But........that is what makes this forum interesting!

I am one who believes that the ultra-conservative segment of the Apostolic faith is two generations away from near extinction! The wind is blowing in a different direction.

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

I agree that there has been mud-slinging in both directions on this forum. But........that is what makes this forum interesting!

I am one who believes that the ultra-conservative segment of the Apostolic faith is two generations away from near extinction! The wind is blowing in a different direction.

Not true. There are far more then you may realize.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

It has been said that time proves all things, and I, for one, believe it's true.

In hindsight, over the past two years, I can see that a lot of damage can occur through online interaction. I admit that I have no idea why caused this particular thread, but it appears to be a general angst concerning www.justpreachers.com. It appears that some of us are upset that men who comprise that forum have a negative opinion of AFF and what goes on here. It appears that some of us are upset at the things they say about AFF.

Truth is, we are hurt by what has been said. It bothers us. But (and I say this with as much love as I can muster) it does not bother us enough to consider our own actions. It does not bother us enough to consider that they may actually be justified in their feelings. No, we would rather paint them as ultraconservative meanies who leave because they are too intellectually challenged here to stay. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, no one like their beliefs trashed. NO ONE. But that is what happens, and it happens often throughout all of the Pentecostal forums. We engage in a funky sort of verbal nuclear combat - just so we can say that we won the war.

Many of us realize the power AFF weilds. This is not some outdated periodical people use to decorate their coffee table. This is the most powerful media in all of Oneness Pentecostalism. That is why what is posted here actually matters.

Nicely written and well worded, but I'm afraid you give a little to much power to AFF or any other forum. The number of members would need to be much much greater for it to be the powerhouse you suggest. It jsut doesn't have the reach....yet. Not saying anything about about AFF, as I enjoy reading here and trying to contribute occasionally.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

It has been said that time proves all things, and I, for one, believe it's true.

In hindsight, over the past two years, I can see that a lot of damage can occur through online interaction. I admit that I have no idea why caused this particular thread, but it appears to be a general angst concerning www.justpreachers.com. It appears that some of us are upset that men who comprise that forum have a negative opinion of AFF and what goes on here. It appears that some of us are upset at the things they say about AFF.

Truth is, we are hurt by what has been said. It bothers us. But (and I say this with as much love as I can muster) it does not bother us enough to consider our own actions. It does not bother us enough to consider that they may actually be justified in their feelings. No, we would rather paint them as ultraconservative meanies who leave because they are too intellectually challenged here to stay. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, no one like their beliefs trashed. NO ONE. But that is what happens, and it happens often throughout all of the Pentecostal forums. We engage in a funky sort of verbal nuclear combat - just so we can say that we won the war.

Many of us realize the power AFF weilds. This is not some outdated periodical people use to decorate their coffee table. This is the most powerful media in all of Oneness Pentecostalism. That is why what is posted here actually matters.

I don't totally agree with all you said in regards to how influential AFF is, but trying to look at our posts in another light & the spirit in which you posted it
is very much appreciated!

Kudos to ya!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Truth is, we are hurt by what has been said. It bothers us. But (and I say this with as much love as I can muster) it does not bother us enough to consider our own actions. It does not bother us enough to consider that they may actually be justified in their feelings. No, we would rather paint them as ultraconservative meanies who leave because they are too intellectually challenged here to stay. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, no one like their beliefs trashed. NO ONE. But that is what happens, and it happens often throughout all of the Pentecostal forums. We engage in a funky sort of verbal nuclear combat - just so we can say that we won the war.

I agree with you here. Why stay if what you believe is being trashed? Everyone has their opinion on how they interpret any portion of scripture. There is never going to be uniform agreement. We need to get used to it!