What do you think of this?

[Book 'em Dano]

A UPC church has a multicultural congregation. A local PAW does not nor does the local Apostolic Assembly. The AA is all Latino. The AA church has actively sought to take away Latino saints from the UPC. The Pastor of the AA is ok with it. The PAW Pastor gave an invitation to church members when he was at the UPC where he was welcomed to attend. Well one of the UPCs saints went and visited and stayed and the PAW pastor never called.

Members of the AA used to visit the UPC and actually would try to talk Latino members to change churches.

I personally find this disturbing. On the one hand it is unethical to actively try to get saints to change churches. On the other hand I am bothered by the "our kind" mentality. I thought segregation was a racist ideal.

The AA has in the past first gotten the wife to leave the UPC and go to their church, then they tell the husband he needs to follow his wife. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Anyways, the UPC pastor wanted to be able to get together with the other oneness churches but now is reluctant to do so because of the sheep stealing activities and the lack of ministerial consideration to call the pastor when one of his saints changed churches.

Is this some sort of growing trend? Aren't there enough sinners out there to reach without having to take a bunch from another church? I fully understand why a Pastor would no longer want to associate with the other churches despite them supposed to be brothers of the faith.

What do you think?

[Jermyn Davidson]

I experienced that when I lived in Grand Bay, AL.

I attended the local UPCI church there, and I was the only Black member there. I loved this church and would not have become a member any where else.

But there was an predominately Black Ind. Apostolic church close by. In fact, the church was all Black. One or two of the brothers of that church encouraged me to leave my church to join theirs.

The Pastor of that church hinted at it too, and said that my current Pastor would understand. They also questioned my stance on UPCI standards.


In the end, I realized the Lord led me to that church and there I stayed.

It didn't bother me then because, strangely enough, the stuff they were saying made sense at the time and the questions they were posing seemed sincere. There were a few times I was very lonely. Now I see that I was being seen only as another potential member, not really a friend.

[mfblume]

Sheep Stealing is never God's way. And the excuses some take for sheep stealing are horrendous.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sheep Stealing is never God's way. And the excuses some take for sheep stealing are horrendous.

While I agree............ let me stir the pot.

How can I "steal" a sheep that does not belong to you or I. I thought they were HIS sheep.

[TRFrance]

It comes down to basic ethics.

Any "man of God" should know that sheep stealing is unethical.... and the fact that they're "cherry-picking" their targets based on race makes it even more disturbing.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

It comes down to basic ethics.

Any "man of God" should know that sheep stealing is unethical.... and the fact that they're "cherry-picking" their targets based on race makes it even more disturbing.

I agree.

[freeatlast]

Would be nice if God would have given us some specific scripture on this.

[ManOfWord]

My take:

None of the "sheep" in the church I pastor are mine. Therefore no one can steal them from me. I can't have "dibs" on anyone. If we are serving them and their needs are being met, we have no reason to fear them leaving and going somewhere else.

However, if we just expect people to put up with inferior ministry because "our" church is where they got saved, we're fools, IMO.

A few years ago, I had a number of folks from the local PAW church begin attending. There were some serious "secret" moral issues involved, which if came to light, would have destroyed the pastor. It's not my job to do that, so I left the sleeping dog lie. One of the folks was their choir director and also the pastor's Sec'y.

She now loves NLC, the freedom she has and is a blessing. The PAW pastor called her about a year ago and told her that the Lord told him to tell her that she needed to leave our church NOW! At first, I was upset, but she doesn't belong to me. I counseled her to do what the Lord led her to do. She knew what she would be going back to if she left. She decided to stay and now this man no longer has control over her.

I have far more important things to do than to worry about who is trying to take members from NLC. If all they are is members, then they WILL find someplace else who will love them. However, if they're family and receive ministry and love, they're probably not going to want to go elsewhere.

I don't fault anyone for leaving if I am too arrogant to do what it takes to minister to them or their family.

Anyone is welcome here and anyone is welcome to leave! That is freedom, and it sure keeps my blood pressure low!

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

My take:

None of the "sheep" in the church I pastor are mine. Therefore no one can steal them from me. I can't have "dibs" on anyone. If we are serving them and their needs are being met, we have no reason to fear them leaving and going somewhere else.

However, if we just expect people to put up with inferior ministry because "our" church is where they got saved, we're fools, IMO.

A few years ago, I had a number of folks from the local PAW church begin attending. There were some serious "secret" moral issues involved, which if came to light, would have destroyed the pastor. It's not my job to do that, so I left the sleeping dog lie. One of the folks was their choir director and also the pastor's Sec'y.

She now loves NLC, the freedom she has and is a blessing. The PAW pastor called her about a year ago and told her that the Lord told him to tell her that she needed to leave our church NOW! At first, I was upset, but she doesn't belong to me. I counseled her to do what the Lord led her to do. She knew what she would be going back to if she left. She decided to stay and now this man no longer has control over her.

I have far more important things to do than to worry about who is trying to take members from NLC. If all they are is members, then they WILL find someplace else who will love them. However, if they're family and receive ministry and love, they're probably not going to want to go elsewhere.

I don't fault anyone for leaving if I am too arrogant to do what it takes to minister to them or their family.

Anyone is welcome here and anyone is welcome to leave! That is freedom, and it sure keeps my blood pressure low!

But that is totally different than you seeking them out to become members of your church.

[vrblackwell]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

My take:

None of the "sheep" in the church I pastor are mine. Therefore no one can steal them from me. I can't have "dibs" on anyone. If we are serving them and their needs are being met, we have no reason to fear them leaving and going somewhere else.

However, if we just expect people to put up with inferior ministry because "our" church is where they got saved, we're fools, IMO.

A few years ago, I had a number of folks from the local PAW church begin attending. There were some serious "secret" moral issues involved, which if came to light, would have destroyed the pastor. It's not my job to do that, so I left the sleeping dog lie. One of the folks was their choir director and also the pastor's Sec'y.

She now loves NLC, the freedom she has and is a blessing. The PAW pastor called her about a year ago and told her that the Lord told him to tell her that she needed to leave our church NOW! At first, I was upset, but she doesn't belong to me. I counseled her to do what the Lord led her to do. She knew what she would be going back to if she left. She decided to stay and now this man no longer has control over her.

I have far more important things to do than to worry about who is trying to take members from NLC. If all they are is members, then they WILL find someplace else who will love them. However, if they're family and receive ministry and love, they're probably not going to want to go elsewhere.

I don't fault anyone for leaving if I am too arrogant to do what it takes to minister to them or their family.

Anyone is welcome here and anyone is welcome to leave! That is freedom, and it sure keeps my blood pressure low!

Excellent post and attitude.