What do you think of this?

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Maybe you are making that the "real issue". But I think you're ignoring the real "real issue" here.

The primary issue is the practice of encouraging members of a particular church to join someone else's church... and picking those "targets" primarily based on their race.

That is morally questionable behavior at the very least.

We all know they're God's people, and they're all owned by God, and are members of HIS church, etc. No one here disagrees with that fact.

But what we are talking about here primarily is the practice of a church building up it's membership by cherry-picking members of an already established church. Some pastors are going to be more offended/bothered by that practice than others, but the key issue here is the people doing it and thinking it's ok. The fact it, it happens. I've personally witnessed it in action, and always felt it was wrong. Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that God is pleased with that kind of stuff happening.

again...sorry...i did not think I was ignoring the issue. i'll try to be clearer.

The practice of another church is no concern of mine. If they think it is ok...then that is for God to judge or not judge...not me.

As for God being pleased...i believe His word tells us what pleases Him.

[OnTheFritz]

As many have already stated, there is a big difference between the two issues on this thread...

A pastor should have no problem with people leaving and going wherever they want to go. But, someone (pastor or members) that actively pursues members of another church for the sole purpose of increasing their membership is out of line.

Unless they believe that those members are being taught false doctrine, there is no other acceptable motivation to pursue them, in my opinion. And, of course, that is a subjective issue in itself.

I've seen this happen, and it was very destructive.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Would you actively participate in persuading saints from another congregation to leave their assembly and attend yours? Do you consider such action to be unethical or immoral?

No...I would not.

No...I would not feel comfortable calling it "unethical or immoral".

For me....it would mean that I would have to take time away from what I'm really suppose to be doing...feeding/caring/loving these sheep. I cannot justify wasting time in vain pursuits.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by edjen01

i am sorry that you do not feel i'm answering the issues. i thought i was.

i'll personalize it.....another church that actively targets people in my church to come to thier church...i do not believe i should concern myself with members of another church. does that answer the question?

no it does not. You obfuscated. The question was not "are you concerned about member of another church?"

The question is, is it unethical for members of another church to call members of YOUR church and try to convince them to change churches. Or for them to come to YOUR church service on the pretense they just want fellowship, then try to convince members to leave that church and join his church.

1) is it unethical?

2)if so would that congregation be a good congregation to be in?

3)if the pastor of that congregation allows such conduct is he being unethical?

4) If so, should the pastor of the targeted church try to keep the other church from causing division on his church?

they are not in my church for me to feed....so they are not my concern.

Again you are obfuscating. The issue is not the members of another church and whether or not they are being fed.

if they choose to do this, that, or something else....it is not my concern.

Again the issue is not what THEY chose to do. The issue is the congregation they are targeting

my plate is full caring for the ones God has allowed me to care for. if they are right or wrong....is not for me to say or judge....they are not mine....they are HIS.

Not the issue.

Should I be concerned about the saints I am pastoring....yes.

Should you be concerned that another church in town is actively trying to divide your congregation? Actively trying to take saints OUT of your congregation to fill their own congregation, not because they view them as lost souls as they are doctrinally the same. Do you think such a church would be a healthy place for YOUR saints to be in? Would you not be concerned that another church is trying to convince the saints under your pastorship away? When there is a whole city of lost souls to win?

See the issue is the saints you pastor, but yes you DO need to determine if such a church across town is a healthy church to be in for YOUR saints.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by edjen01

No...I would not.

No...I would not feel comfortable calling it "unethical or immoral".

For me....it would mean that I would have to take time away from what I'm really suppose to be doing...feeding/caring/loving these sheep. I cannot justify wasting time in vain pursuits.

Ok, so it is unethical and immoral. Would you, as a pastor, be OK with that church regularly attending your services then at the end approaching those saints in YOUR church and trying to get them to leave and join their church....all things considered...that church is practicing something you called unethical and immoral...as a Pastor would you be comfortable with them getting members of your congregation to join them?

Seems to me if you really cared about the sheep, you would seek to prevent that

[SDG]

Unethical and immoral are not the same thing ... right?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Unethical and immoral are not the same thing ... right?

Right, but that does not mean something can be both unethical and immoral.

Are you ok with being unethical as long as it is not immoral?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Right, but that does not mean something can be both unethical and immoral.

Are you ok with being unethical as long as it is not immoral?

Nope, don't think I said that ...

Immoral almost always includes unethical ... unethical may not be immoral.

That being said...

The process and conduct on how we are to deal with unethical behavior as opposed to immoral behavior ... seems plain in the Word. Does it not?

I don't think this situation IF FOUNDED IN FACT may necessarily rise to being immoral.

Again, a lot of it ... the first post .... seems jaded in biases and he said, she said.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by edjen01

No...I would not.

No...I would not feel comfortable calling it "unethical or immoral".

For me....it would mean that I would have to take time away from what I'm really suppose to be doing...feeding/caring/loving these sheep. I cannot justify wasting time in vain pursuits.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Ok, so it is unethical and immoral. Would you, as a pastor, be OK with that church regularly attending your services then at the end approaching those saints in YOUR church and trying to get them to leave and join their church....all things considered...that church is practicing something you called unethical and immoral...as a Pastor would you be comfortable with them getting members of your congregation to join them?

Seems to me if you really cared about the sheep, you would seek to prevent that

Take a second look, Praxeas.
Eden said he/she would NOT call it unethical and immoral.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Nope, don't think I said that ...

Immoral almost always includes unethical ... unethical may not be immoral.

That being said...

The process and conduct on how we are to deal with unethical behavior as opposed to immoral behavior ... seems plain in the Word.

yes you are right, clearly if someone is being immoral they are being unethical but the converse is not necessarily the same.

Yes but given the initial post it was not about the other person or church being unethical in the sense of "what am I going to do to them" like punishment, but rather one of "what am I going to do to protect the flock"

For me? I would not want a pastor that sees other churches, that are supposed to be our brethren, as active targets to fleece.

The church should be focusing on reaching lost souls and raising the new ones.