Can a person have the Holy Ghost and be demon poss

[mfblume]

There are some views, which I do not ascribe to, which believe demon spirits are actually pre-adamic man who never had a salvation plan in the time between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, who were wiped out in a judgment. And they believe fallen angels are from Noah's time when "the sons of God' saw the daughters of men and copulated with them -- "sons of God" being angels.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think it helps the person that needs deliverance to hear the person praying for/with them has done this before and knows what they are doing.

To make it seem all about them. no. But to build faith. yes.

I think that could be helpful for some people, no doubt.

I don't really know how I would have reacted, or to be honest, even would now if I was hearing stories from someone. I've heard too many stories and tried to get help from the tale bearers, only to find out they were pretty clueless.

The help that came, came from people who just stepped in and said what needed said and did what needed done. Whether or not they had any experience didn't matter to me at all.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Because God works with us as far as we will let him work.

How can someone be filled with the Spirit and yet have a demon living in the same person? Just doens't make sense

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I never said Ananias had a devil. I am simply saying there are believers who do wicked things at times, and think wicked thoughts. God does not always strive with man, but He does to an extent.

So then why quote this verse since the topic is someone having the Spirit and having a demon too

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Stories alone do not mean much, but when the long lasting evidence of a real change is seen in people's lives, that is more than stories. It is the "follow through."

Right.

And the people who walk along side someone as they develop their own follow through... Those are the people who are truly involved in deliverance ministries.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esther

I can't answer that. All I can say is there are a lot of people that have been filled with the Holy Ghost and still have generational curses.

Im still waiting for someone to prove that is true. You are asking the question but assuming the conclusion is true (circular argument). Second I don't see "generational curse" in the bible, but why assume that is a demon possession? I see no evidence to support that

Many preach this is not possible, yet many testify to the fact they have to deal with it.

A generational curse might just be a learned behavior. I see LOTS of families like this. They learn a behavior from their parents

I think we have taught a lot of things that facts don't back up. For example:
Back in the 60's we were taught when you get the Holy Ghost all was well, no more problems. Facts didn't agree with that. In fact, many times you had more battles, BUT you now had God to fight the battle for you where as before you didn't. Many expected the Holy Ghost to be our housekeeper instead of us being responsible for keeping our house clean.

Whatever is not backed up in the word I won't make a doctrine out of it. If it is not the word or contradicts the word, Paul said let the word of God be true and every man a liar

I know the Bible says we become a new creature. A new creature with a new spirit. And in some that is true and they have a total deliverance, others don't seem to have that same experience.

How can it be true for some and not for others? I suggest maybe some did not get the Spirit to begin with or what we are dealing with are not demonic spirits at all but physical or psychological addictions or learned behaviors. That is why we are to renew our minds daily. We are being changed from glory to glory

Maybe we are dealing with Mercy and Grace. For example: two girls commit fornication, one gets pregnant and the other doesn't. Mercy was the girl didn't get pregnant, grace was the Lord would give her the grace to go through the pregnacy. They were both guilty of the same sin.

A demonic spirit...we are talking about a Holy Ghost filled person having a demon.

I don't have all the answers and I'm afraid there are some that think they do and they don't. I think we have built on traditions of what was taught and now the evidence is not backing it up.

We have the word of God.

Then again back in the day I don't remember anyone leaving the altars filled with the Holy Ghost that wasn't completely delivered of whatever they had. Now we have folks get the Holy Ghost and still fight addiction to smoking, still fight addiction to homosexuality. God is the same, His power is still there. But I will also say, most didn't get the Holy Ghost back then the first night they went to the altar, some did but more didn't, from my experience. But when they got it they kept it, their house was swept clean.

Not being completely delivered from something does not make them demon possessed though.

Why is it different today? God has not changed.

What does the word say? Nothing is different and the word does not indicate a Holy Ghost filled person can be demon possessed at teh same time

I don't have all the answers but you can't tell a person that has spoken in tongues it isn't for today.

I didn't say speaking in tongues isn't for today.

Nor can you tell a person that has been delivered that they weren't delivered because they had the Holy Ghost.

Im not even sure what you mean here

So you that say this is not possible explain how that can be????

That is what I am telling you. It's not. There is nothing to explain because it is not. I have seen and heard of people being accused of having a demon when the did not.

And we don't need a prophet to know if there is a demon in the house. I have witnessed demon possession and we did not have a Bro Bustard there to tell us. They manifest when the Spirit of God moves. They manifest when a Holy Ghost filled person is present. I don't see how someone can have the Spirit of God for a while and yet have had a demon too and nothing happen until an Evangelist/prophet came on the scene unless that church was deader than a door nail

[shawndell]

You cant serve two masters and when you get the holyghost the devel cant touch.God lives in that person.Yet a person can go against the holyghost and become oppressed.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Praxe[PHP

[/PHP]as;694281]That is what I am telling you. It's not. There is nothing to explain because it is not. I have seen and heard of people being accused of having a demon when the did not.

Exactly. I've heard this, and seen this, often. Struggling with something isn't necessarily a demon. Having issues from past abuse or experiences isn't demonic. It's just life. I don't actually get this idea of casting out a spirit of fear. It probably works..cuz the mind is a funny thing. But seriously? Deal with your fears, face them, work through them, and go on with your life. But at the same time, I don't really feel comfortable claiming such a thing doesn't exist. I doubt it...but I know full well that just because it hasn't been my experience doesn't mean it hasn't been someone else's.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And we don't need a prophet to know if there is a demon in the house. I have witnessed demon possession and we did not have a Bro Bustard there to tell us. They manifest when the Spirit of God moves. They manifest when a Holy Ghost filled person is present. I don't see how someone can have the Spirit of God for a while and yet have had a demon too and nothing happen until an Evangelist/prophet came on the scene unless that church was deader than a door nail

No doubt. I still don't know if I was possessed, or just messed. lol Either way, the experiences that I had were physical, and intense. Skin crawling, overwhelming sensations of pins and needles, yucky stuff to be sure. I spent a lot of church services outside the sanctuary because I couldn't stand being in there. And I asked a lot of people how I could ache for something so desperately, and be completely unable to stand it at the same time.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well, based on your view of this, (with scriptural references, if possible) ... where did "unclean spirits" come from, if they are not fallen angels?

Did God simply create them as unclean spirits?

I don't believe in a pre-adamic race. lol

I'll share this with you if you like. I sent my response via PM for your review. Before you read it, pray. Pray that God lead and guide you into all truth. Read it, don't just discount it... also don't just believe it. Test the waters so to speak when casting these things out, when they are properly identified it often shocks them. But be careful, they can turn violent when exposed. Also study the Word on the subject. Don't go by what others have written, allow the Holy Ghost to open your understanding. You're free to share your initial thoughts in PM or here on the thread of course.

My response will be in your private messages.

[Evangelist]

no because how can you have the spirit of GOD and spirit of the Devil at same time