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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #81  
Old 02-02-2009, 01:40 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
There are several medical conditions that cannot be absolutely verified by conclusive testing, including Parkinson's, Multiple Sclerosis, and chronic insomnia. Even rabies cannot be confirmed until the person has died.

It is fact that lack of certain chemicals in the brain can be problematic for the sufferer. Parkinson's is one such disease where the mere lack of dopamine in the brain causes their symptoms.

Serotonin is responsible for many things, including moods. You cannot control your own emotions, but the chemicals that your body releases does that for you. Even your blood pressure is controlled by chemicals that you produce or don't produce.

With over 1000 hormones in the body, not to mention other chemicals, it's next to impossible to have conclusive testing for every disease where chemicals are to blame.

I have a condition that can only be diagnosed by eliminating all other possibilities. It's intracranial hypertension caused by having high spinal pressure that forces spinal fluid into my brain. I suffered for years from this condition...over 30...before being diagnosed and having brain surgery that 'cured' me. There is no conclusive test for this disease.

That being said, I completely agree with your second statement as well. I also believe that too many people are improperly diagnosed as having those illnesses and put on meds which don't help at all, and many times, make things worse. I wish there was a way to correctly diagnose someone as being bi-polar, ADD, and all that instead of trying med after med after med. I believe it delays not only treatment, but it also discourages people from continuing to seek help.
Your comment about rabies doesn't relate to this matter, as rabies does respond to medical treatment. No "cures" exist in the mental health industry. It's all speculative, or, maybe, maybe not. The end result cannot be determined. God is the answer for mental health, not medicine. We must learn to keep our minds stayed upon Him, and this will be hindered by medication that "numbs" the brain or feelings of natural emotion.

His Word will complete our focus, our mission, and help us through the darkest hour. Jesus Christ is the absolute of absolutes! When we fill our minds with His eternal counsel, nothing is impossible! We are more than conquorers!

It's interesting to note, many of the problems in today's society regarding mental deficiancy were abated by yesterday's lifestyle and deeper dedication to lean on the Master.

For instance, I have a medical book copyrighted from the early 1900's. The antidote or cure for insomnia was this; chop wood. This was the answer to help someone sleep; create physical weariness. The book also stressed, find the Lord anew. Restore lost committment. Empty the mind of all the negative rhetoric that is born of Satan.

Exercise has also been proven to help one's state of mind, releasing serotonin and dopamine (naturally), relieving stress and giving one a better nights sleep. Our world has become deprived of this (exersise), and we are paying the price. Pills only take us deeper into the quandry of confusion, fear, doubt, and the dependency of man's wicked invention to soothe our inner conscience that is reeling with the conviction to find Him, and Him alone.

Drugs are not the answer, and never will be. Jesus Christ can stabalize the raging sea and the mind that He created.

Lord Bless, NFS
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  #82  
Old 02-02-2009, 01:55 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

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Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
Your comment about rabies doesn't relate to this matter, as rabies does respond to medical treatment. No "cures" exist in the mental health industry. It's all speculative, or, maybe, maybe not. The end result cannot be determined. God is the answer for mental health, not medicine. We must learn to keep our minds stayed upon Him, and this will be hindered by medication that "numbs" the brain or feelings of natural emotion.
In some ways, I can agree with you, however, why is it that while we know the brain to be an organ, we don't believe meds should correct what is wrong with it, while we continue to treat other organs that don't work correctly, like the heart, kidneys, pancreas, and liver?

In addition, most diseases aren't 'cured', but managed by medications that the sufferer has to take for the duration of their life. It shouldn't be considered to have to be different for the brain either.

There are many brain diseases that are controlled by psych drugs, including Pick's, Huntington's, and Alzheimer's. Surely we don't deny the use of drugs on those people just because they have mental health issues, do we?

In the elderly, the brain shrinks, causing dementia. Those people depend on proper medicinal treatment to control behaviors they won't perform under normal circumstances, but we can't deny those things to them because it's a mental condition, do we?

While I believe God is the answer for everything, He gave us a brain for a reason, and He also gave us medicine. Even in the Bible, He advocated the use of medicines instead of outright healing or preventing disease. Ever wonder why He did that?
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  #83  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:15 PM
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shawndell shawndell is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

Ive got to say something on this subject.Ive been a nurse aide for many years and I went in to take a intrance exam for nursing well I flunked the math, so while taking the math class I took another course to become a medication aide so that I can pass pills to my residence at the nursing home where I work.I have a medication hand book that I read and alot of those meds they use for the mind they dont even know how the meds work.They say it just does thats all they know.They dont even know what the long term effects of some of the meds will have on the body.
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  #84  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:16 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
In some ways, I can agree with you, however, why is it that while we know the brain to be an organ, we don't believe meds should correct what is wrong with it, while we continue to treat other organs that don't work correctly, like the heart, kidneys, pancreas, and liver?

In addition, most diseases aren't 'cured', but managed by medications that the sufferer has to take for the duration of their life. It shouldn't be considered to have to be different for the brain either.

There are many brain diseases that are controlled by psych drugs, including Pick's, Huntington's, and Alzheimer's. Surely we don't deny the use of drugs on those people just because they have mental health issues, do we?

In the elderly, the brain shrinks, causing dementia. Those people depend on proper medicinal treatment to control behaviors they won't perform under normal circumstances, but we can't deny those things to them because it's a mental condition, do we?

While I believe God is the answer for everything, He gave us a brain for a reason, and He also gave us medicine. Even in the Bible, He advocated the use of medicines instead of outright healing or preventing disease. Ever wonder why He did that?
What medicines does the Bible refer to, and do any of these refer to a substance designed to bring the mind into balance and relief?

Does the Bible deal with the subject of sobriety?

Are we as Christians yielding to the counsel and advice of those who love the Truth? Psalms 1 says, Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly.

What does the 23 Psalm say about the Lord, His ability, and how we are to rely on His provision?

The abuse of drugs and the demonizing side affects of them, have overrun the Church and faith driven principle, leaving people addicted and in despair. This is the issue at hand. Those who have Alzheimers are not the ones we are discussing here. Children, adults, and pastors, they are being put on these drugs to medicate a problem God was meant to solve. The worldly counsel of today says we shouldn't have to deal with the pain of grief, sadness, and depression that we all must face at some point in life.

Other organs in the body are not the mind. Treating a kidney, heart, pancreas, or liver is different than treating the mind. The mind is where people make decisions, eternal ones. We must medicate the mind with His Word, even if it hurts. We must learn to deal with lifes woes, no matter what the foulness of weather may be. The cross is not easy to bear at times, but the result is understanding and power.

This whole issue is really about pain. We hate pain. We hate to see others in pain. But, without pain, we would never grow and become the man or woman which God intended for us to be.

The fruit of longsuffering and patience is being poisoned by an economy bent on making profit at the expense of our stupidity.

My people are destroyed because of the lack of knowledge. We need to be informed, banishing ignorance from our focus to be saved so we can become the Light of the World. Drug use marr's our testimony and leaves us poor in strength.

Lord Bless, NFS
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  #85  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:22 PM
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shawndell shawndell is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

Some of the other meds for blood pressure or your heart can have alot of side effects some minor and, some major up to the point of death. If a certain med doesnt hurt you in the presant they dont know what the long term problems that will arise.Alot of that stuff can make your body dependant on it like certain meds for your heart.your heart can depend so much on the med if you dont keep going to the docter for your prescriptions your heart can fail.
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  #86  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:28 PM
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shawndell shawndell is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

Ever since I finished that course and have been working in that job ive had many questions about my responsibility in the harm of another but ,my husband,mother and,every one in my family has said that I paid to take that course so dont be a quiter.Now Im wondering about going to school for the nursing program!
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  #87  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:35 PM
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shawndell shawndell is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

Ill say one more thing. I dont want to walk down the wrong road. Ethiopia has had a wonderfull outpouring of the holyghost and miracles without number.Has America put God on the shelf because we think we dont need him? Have we placed our first love with science? Has God become second in our sceme of things?
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  #88  
Old 02-02-2009, 07:21 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

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Originally Posted by shawndell View Post
Some of the other meds for blood pressure or your heart can have alot of side effects some minor and, some major up to the point of death. If a certain med doesnt hurt you in the presant they dont know what the long term problems that will arise.Alot of that stuff can make your body dependant on it like certain meds for your heart.your heart can depend so much on the med if you dont keep going to the docter for your prescriptions your heart can fail.
This isn't accurate information. If you have heart problems, you have to take meds for the rest of your life if surgery isn't an option. It's not because your heart is dependent on the medication.

It's like saying that diabetics are addicted to insulin and if they quit taking it, their blood sugar will increase. Well, yeah. It's supposed to do that, but it's not because they are addicted to insulin. Their body needs it to survive.
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  #89  
Old 02-03-2009, 07:08 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

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Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
What medicines does the Bible refer to, and do any of these refer to a substance designed to bring the mind into balance and relief?

Does the Bible deal with the subject of sobriety?

Are we as Christians yielding to the counsel and advice of those who love the Truth? Psalms 1 says, Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly.

What does the 23 Psalm say about the Lord, His ability, and how we are to rely on His provision?

The abuse of drugs and the demonizing side affects of them, have overrun the Church and faith driven principle, leaving people addicted and in despair. This is the issue at hand. Those who have Alzheimers are not the ones we are discussing here. Children, adults, and pastors, they are being put on these drugs to medicate a problem God was meant to solve. The worldly counsel of today says we shouldn't have to deal with the pain of grief, sadness, and depression that we all must face at some point in life.

Other organs in the body are not the mind. Treating a kidney, heart, pancreas, or liver is different than treating the mind. The mind is where people make decisions, eternal ones. We must medicate the mind with His Word, even if it hurts. We must learn to deal with lifes woes, no matter what the foulness of weather may be. The cross is not easy to bear at times, but the result is understanding and power.

This whole issue is really about pain. We hate pain. We hate to see others in pain. But, without pain, we would never grow and become the man or woman which God intended for us to be.

The fruit of longsuffering and patience is being poisoned by an economy bent on making profit at the expense of our stupidity.

My people are destroyed because of the lack of knowledge. We need to be informed, banishing ignorance from our focus to be saved so we can become the Light of the World. Drug use marr's our testimony and leaves us poor in strength.

Lord Bless, NFS
I agree but they also did not shoot the kids up with vaccines that alter the state of the mind and cause disease down the road. THat is not including all the trash they put in food and no telling what it does to us in the end. Then we have toxic exposure to metals and other things in water, food, air etc.... Yep, you create a unnatural state you get unnatural issues!
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  #90  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:32 AM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Saints on Drugs

These Words blessed my day. I hope they will solidify our desire to seek Him when we are distressed.

Isaiah 61: 1-3

The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;

2To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

NFS
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