What's wrong with being relevant?

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

I am afraid we have some leaders whose faith is so weak as to believe interaction with the unchurched will somehow leave the "saints" themselves less than holy.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and I know I'll get slaughtered for it...

But this brother's statement holds some degree of truth to it. And I often wonder if it's not because our churches and ministries have put so much emphasis on external, outward holiness without the greater emphasis on the internal holiness and spiritual maturity, that they're afraid that peoples' relationship with God is not strong enough to keep them from being influenced by "the world." Does that make sense?

I've been in this for 24 of my 42 years. And until the last couple years I can honestly (sadly) say that I didn't have much of a relationship with God. It's because my focus was on doing and not doing, going and not going - to the point where I held all the standards, didn't go to movies, went to church four times a week, but didn't know God and wasn't really even led in that direction. I had plenty of times of emotional highs and moves of the Spirit, I loved to worship enthusiastically. Anyone seeing me would have thought I had it all together and was as holy as a saint could be - just one step below the ministry. But there was no relationship. Once the music faded and the preaching was finished and I went back to life, it was just emptiness.

If we're going to believe in the standards, that's perfectly fine if that's your conviction. But there needs to be a balance whereby people understand that, even though you are "doing all the right things the right way," you still need to grow in your relationship with God through PERSONAL interaction with Him and study of His Word. There are WAY TOO MANY people depending on their pastors to do all the studying and all the praying, IMO. And that's a tragedy.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

My dear friends -

It is not how one looks, speaks or even how we act that will make us relevant to anyone "in the world". As pointed out earlier, it will be how we engage these individuals - meeting them where "they are at" and ministering to their needs - right now..

What will attract the attention of those around us - to want to examine us closer - is not our "holy dress", but the fruit of the Spirit. What will attract folks is not our ability to recite Oneness doctrine or even Acts 2:38, it will be the power of our testimony and the witness of our transformed lives.

Or,

We can stay out of the sinners house, like Jesus did. We can stay away from those believe in the same God, but not as we do, just like Peter did. We can keep ourselves separated from those who do not believe in our God at all, like Paul did. We can keep adding to our list of religious laws, like Apostles did. Yes, let's pray that God will send those sinners into the "House of God", so we will not have to go out to the highways and byways and compel anyone to come in.

Oops! Perhaps we need to make some minor adjustments (corrections) to the above statements.

Why would anyone want what we have, when we look and act like we are in worse shape than they are? We love to use David as an example of expressing our joy before the Lord and to justify our worship behavior in church. Well, friends and neighbors, David did not do a wild dance in church (Temple) - he did it in public and in front of the ladies! Now, where are our public expressions of joy before the Lord? Where are our smiles and warm greetings? Where are our helping hands and expressions of compassion? Where are our ministries to the lost and dieing with food, shelter, clothings, medical support, transportation, etc. and yes, don't forget fellowship and the sharing of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven?

It was for these folks that Jesus died. Can we not put up with a little stink of cigarette smoke, stale liquor, and their lousy music? After all, "such were some of you."

Ouch! Make that, "such were some of us!"

Awesome post... as always! We spend too much time and money building up our own kingdoms that we don't have anything left for building up God's kingdom! God's kingdom does not have elaborate multi-million dollar worship centers or learning campuses. God's kingdom is in you and me! We should be spending more money on outreach than we do on our building rent/mortgage! Instead of finding ways to make our "churches" comfortable and luxurious, we should be finding ways to give more to those who need it, like the single mother who had her heat shut off because she couldn't pay the bill, or the homeless family living in their car because their home was foreclosed and their credit is so bad they can't get an apartment.

IMO, seven of the most beautiful words in the Bible are "And such were some of you, but!" The problem is that we so often forget about the BUT! Everyone saved by grace has a BUT! We pat ourselves on the back for how victorious we are, glorying in our Apostolic heritage and how many generations our family has been "in the truth", and forget those who are waiting for us to take the victory back to them.

Can we not put up with a little stink of cigarette smoke, stale liquor, and their lousy music?

Let's face it! If you're going to reach into the fire, you'll probably get burned a little. Should that prevent us from reaching, though?

[Michael The Disciple]

HaSheliac

We can keep adding to our list of religious laws, like Apostles did. Yes, let's pray that God will send those sinners into the "House of God", so we will not have to go out to the highways and byways and compel anyone to come in.

I will be speaking as one who started witnessing on the streets of Dayton Ohio as part of the Jesus Movement back in 1975. This has been a strong part of my Christian walk since the beginning. We witnessed in Airports, Malls and downtown. We witnessed to hookers, freaks, gays, drunks, and whoever.

We would go to the deep woods at midnight looking for the lost. Taking guitars and praising the Lord to draw out those searching for purpose in life who congregated there in the darkness in late hours of the night. We had a confrontation with a coven of witches there one night and got to preach to them. They came up behind where we were praising the Lord cursing and throwing some kind of powder on us.

When we began to pray in the Spirit they backed off into the woods. One of our people who had himself came out of witchcraft preached to them! When we left the woods they followed along from behind the trees and brush cursing as we sang "He Aint Never Done Me Nothin But Good".

All through the years relevance has been important to me. Now at 55 years old and living in Kentucky this is no less important. The Lord has blessed to be able to get out on the main intersections here and preach the gospel and be seen or heard by thousands.

I say all this to demonstrate willingness to get my hands dirty and not sit back and "hold the fort".

What will attract the attention of those around us - to want to examine us closer - is not our "holy dress", but the fruit of the Spirit. What will attract folks is not our ability to recite Oneness doctrine or even Acts 2:38, it will be the power of our testimony and the witness of our transformed lives.

I have never went along with some of the outward standards of the Oneness Churches. Not particularly because I would not be willing to submit for my own sake for unity to unscriptural Church standards but early on I saw it was a hinderance to the Sinner who had enough true sin to come out of without adding to their burden.

It is of great priority that we live the commands of Jesus Christ. The world on one hand hates the hypocrite. They despise them for talking to them of Christ. On the other hand they love the hypocrite because they can point to them as an example of a Christian! They can then feel justified that Christians live pretty much like they do.

Its risky buisness to be relevant. Jesus said for us to be perfect and complete in his will. When we go forth into the world to preach the good news the world wants to see an example of Christ! Enough of the bumper sticker religon of "Im not perfect just forgiven".

The youth will respond better to the challenge of true discipleship with its hard hitting emphasis on commitment to Jesus Christ more than to the message that its about "unconditional love".

Another thing to consider is this. Do we want to be relevant to God and his kingdom or relevant to this present world? The most wonderful thing about being a Christian is having FAVOR with God! Knowing him personally by manifestation!

Any presentation on relevance should never suggest partaking of sin. Sin causes the Spirit of God to withdraw his favor. Scripture does command "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness". Our relationships with the lost cannot become "fellowship". Jesus was friendly toward the lost and were the disciples. But not to the point where the message is watered down! I have also seen many cases where the saint fellowshipped and got close to someone they were trying to win by being relevant and wound up backsliding!

I believe if we are spending time with Jesus and being transformed by his commandments and his Spirit we will be relevant to him. If we are relevant to him he will make US relevant to THEM.

[SDG]

Jesus was relevant ... his parables used items and aspects of life that was relevant to the crowd he sought to teach.

I have to think that had He come in 2009 he would not use fig trees, sheep and talents ... Anyone want to venture what he would have used in lieu of these things to KEEP IT REAL ... and bring a spiritual message through common place things and concepts

Of course we know he supped with the non-religous crowd very often ... of course with the intent of bringing the good news.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What have they been saying?

With fear and loathing, lumping relevant with all forms of emerging, they create a strawman which must be destroyed at all costs.

Unable to articulate exactly what it is they fear, they vow to fight it, and purge it from their midst.

Content with the status quo, they do not realize what they fear is not a doctrine but the concept of change.

New pastors rising up willing to try new methodologies to promulgate an immutable gospel.

Organizational leaders, on state level as well as national so afraid of things like home churches, marketplace evangelism, the empowerment of the pew, that they condemn all as heresy rather than even contemplate dialogue.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

With fear and loathing, lumping relevant with all forms of emerging, they create a strawman which must be destroyed at all costs.

Unable to articulate exactly what it is they fear, they vow to fight it, and purge it from their midst.

Content with the status quo, they do not realize what they fear is not a doctrine but the concept of change.

New pastors rising up willing to try new methodologies to promulgate an immutable gospel.

Organizational leaders, on state level as well as national so afraid of things like home churches, marketplace evangelism, the empowerment of the pew, that they condemn all as heresy rather than even contemplate dialogue.

Good post ...

And yet they speak of the ever-so-evasive REVIVAL ... been talking about it for years.

Now their existing structures are threatened and rather than dialogue ...they seek to disfellowship.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Good post ...

And yet they speak of the ever-so-evasive REVIVAL ... been talking about it for years.

Now their existing structures are threatened and rather than dialogue ...they seek to disfellowship.

Bull!

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by jaamez

IMO, seven of the most beautiful words in the Bible are "And such were some of you, but!" The problem is that we so often forget about the BUT! Everyone saved by grace has a BUT! We pat ourselves on the back for how victorious we are, glorying in our Apostolic heritage and how many generations our family has been "in the truth", and forget those who are waiting for us to take the victory back to them.

Let's face it! If you're going to reach into the fire, you'll probably get burned a little. Should that prevent us from reaching, though?

And such were some of you but...

Paul addressing THE CHURCH at Corinth: some of you were adulterers, fornicators, drunkards, sodomites, homosexuals, liars and thieves! In today's terms would probably have to add crackheads, pimps and hos.

Sounds like the first generation was pretty messed up, kind of like society today.

Wonder how they were reached without full time paid pastors, robed choirs, and 40 minute Sunday morning sermons in air conditioned sanctuaries?

[El Predicador]

Good grief!

Is this relevant enough for you?

Pure Sex series.

Champion Life Centre is the new name for Jabo Green's Spring Tabernacle

[freeatlast]

Pure Sex, undefiled and holy ??? Is that what scares you El Predictor?