I Understand the Trinitarian Doctrine to be: - Page 6

Hope Preacher · #51 03-07-2009, 05:01 PM

I have the unique experience of having been licensed with the Assemblies of God as well as the UPC - I was with the UPC first.

I thought that would get your attention.

When being interviewed by the district officials of the AG (Northern California) they knew my background and only asked me two questions: how do you baptize and what do you believe about the godhead.

regarding the godhead I said something like this:
I think my background in the oneness church helps me understand the trinity doctrine better than many trinitarians because I understand the position that Jesus holds. When speaking of the godhead I do not refer to persons because when most people hear the word person they think of a literal, physical being and there are not three literal physical beings in God. However, God exists as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is a sense in which Jesus is the Father and there is a sense in which the Father is Jesus. There is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is Jesus, and there is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Son. That doesn't make three distinct persons but it does show distinctions in purpose and ministry.

I said more, but I don't remember just what it was, this is the main idea anyway. They didn't have any disagreement with what I said.

What is interesting is that What I explained to the AG guys is the same thing I taught for years in the UPC.

Praxeas · #52 03-07-2009, 05:03 PM

I understand the Trinity doctrine on paper is 'One God in being, three in person"....

I see in explaining that concept many Trinitarians end up making the three persons into three distinct beings, thus not Triunity but Tritheism.

It is my opion that Trinity is a convoluted attempt to have three Persons that are each equally God and avoid having three Gods

Praxeas · #53 03-07-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hope Preacher

I have the unique experience of having been licensed with the Assemblies of God as well as the UPC - I was with the UPC first.

I thought that would get your attention.

When being interviewed by the district officials of the AG (Northern California) they knew my background and only asked me two questions: how do you baptize and what do you believe about the godhead.

regarding the godhead I said something like this:
I think my background in the oneness church helps me understand the trinity doctrine better than many trinitarians because I understand the position that Jesus holds. When speaking of the godhead I do not refer to persons because when most people hear the word person they think of a literal, physical being and there are not three literal physical beings in God. However, God exists as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is a sense in which Jesus is the Father and there is a sense in which the Father is Jesus. There is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is Jesus, and there is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Son. That doesn't make three distinct persons but it does show distinctions in purpose and ministry.

I said more, but I don't remember just what it was, this is the main idea anyway. They didn't have any disagreement with what I said.

What is interesting is that What I explained to the AG guys is the same thing I taught for years in the UPC.

And what about baptism? It is my understanding some AOG ministers baptize in jesus name if the candidate wants as an option.

Theophil · #54 03-07-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I understand the Trinity doctrine on paper is 'One God in being, three in person"....

I see in explaining that concept many Trinitarians end up making the three persons into three distinct beings, thus not Triunity but Tritheism.

It is my opinion that Trinity is a convoluted attempt to have three Persons that are each equally God and avoid having three Gods

I agree, that is the way it is.

Hope Preacher · #55 03-07-2009, 05:13 PM

I didn't address baptism because that is not the subject of this thread. But, being that you asked:

I believe the injunction by Jesus to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to be addressing the full authority of God who is Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Whatever one believes about the godhead does not affect the baptism. We are not baptized into the godhead we are baptized into Christ.

When I baptize I use these words:

Upon the profession of your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and upon the authority of the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost, as commanded by Christ, I now baptize you into the Lord Jesus Christ.

It's a mouthful but it gets the job done. The district officials were in agreement and said about half of their pastors baptized that way.

Hope Preacher · #56 03-07-2009, 05:17 PM

Oh yes: I too agree that for far too many the trinity winds up being a convoluted attempt to explain the totality of who/what God is.

I am convinced that man, with his finite mind, cannot fully comprehend or explain the infinite God.

I believe that not only applies to trinitarians but to oneness folks also. None of us have a corner on understanding God.

Praxeas · #57 03-07-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hope Preacher

I didn't address baptism because that is not the subject of this thread. But, being that you asked:

I believe the injunction by Jesus to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to be addressing the full authority of God who is Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Whatever one believes about the godhead does not affect the baptism. We are not baptized into the godhead we are baptized into Christ.

When I baptize I use these words:

Upon the profession of your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and upon the authority of the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost, as commanded by Christ, I now baptize you into the Lord Jesus Christ.

It's a mouthful but it gets the job done. The district officials were in agreement and said about half of their pastors baptized that way.

I think, what I would disagree on is...the authority is not "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but "the name of Jesus".

For many reasons, one is Jesus said all authority is given to Him...and that is how we interpret the next line. All instances of baptism are in the name of Jesus. All through out the NT the authority we see is always in the name of Jesus.

Thanks for answering...anyways I have a friend in an AG.....she is Oneness. She said her pastor avoids using the word Person too

mizpeh · #58 03-07-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hope Preacher

God exists as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is a sense in which Jesus is the Father and there is a sense in which the Father is Jesus. There is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is Jesus, and there is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Son. That doesn't make three distinct persons but it does show distinctions in purpose and ministry.

To bad you weren't around when the AG kicked the "Jesus only" crew out!

You're very tactful.

Hoovie · #59 03-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I think, what I would disagree on is...the authority is not "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but "the name of Jesus".

For many reasons, one is Jesus said all authority is given to Him...and that is how we interpret the next line. All instances of baptism are in the name of Jesus. All through out the NT the authority we see is always in the name of Jesus.

Thanks for answering...anyways I have a friend in an AG.....she is Oneness. She said her pastor avoids using the word Person too

I am not sure one has to choose. Is it inappropriate to quote the words of Christ from Matthew 28:19? Does "in the name of" not mean authority?

TRFrance · #60 03-07-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hope Preacher

I have the unique experience of having been licensed with the Assemblies of God as well as the UPC - I was with the UPC first.

I thought that would get your attention.

When being interviewed by the district officials of the AG (Northern California) they knew my background and only asked me two questions: how do you baptize and what do you believe about the godhead.

regarding the godhead I said something like this:
I think my background in the oneness church helps me understand the trinity doctrine better than many trinitarians because I understand the position that Jesus holds.

Your Oneness background helps you better understand the Trinity.

Wow.
That's all I can say right now.