Cosmetics???

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

hmmm let's take a look at the early church fathers and see if they have anything to add to this it's okay to glorify the flesh. I don't think they supported in anyway what many here consider okay. Also it wasn't just one it was across the board. Another point. Because something is common in the middle eastern culture has nothing to do with whether the church or Israel did it.

Isaiah 3:16 "Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty (proud), and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes (ogle, blink coquettishly), walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:"

Some translations define "wanton" as using eye paint. Not sure about that one.

Jeremiah 4:30 "And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest (paint the eyes, as if enlarging them) thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life".

Jude 1:8 " 8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile (primarily, to stain, to tinge or dye with another colour, as in the staining of a glass, hence, to pollute, contaminate, soil, defile) the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

These are the only scriptures I can see that speak on painting the face or skin. In the context of the above scriptures they appear to be addressing the moral and spiritual character of the people. In other words, these scriptures, IMO, don't appear to be pointing at the items used, but the person using them.

Also, when we look at I Peter 3:5 "For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:" The word adorn is defined as "putting in proper order, decorate (literally or figuratively).

Apparently, moderation, in all things, is the key! We can use anything available to us and turn that into evil use. It's has always been about our heart and character.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

The opposite is also true:
I dont see where they condemned in any way what some here consider to be wrong.

But that's kind of a weak premise to begin with. I think our teachings should be based on what the bible says, not the early church fathers.

-----------
Luke, if we preach that something is sin, shouldnt we have biblical basis to do so? What biblical basis is there to preach agaisnt cosmetics? Please brother, give us what you think is the strongest scriptural reference on this.

Glorifying the flesh is against biblical principle and something the early church fathers taught against concerning jewelry and makeup etc... If you do not realize what the early curch fathers said which is consistent across the board you need to examine again what they said. Envy is one of the natural sins of women and when they start glorifying their looks they become stumbling blocks for others as it takes hold like a virus and at that draw desire from men. That is not love! Same with men as well.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Isaiah 3:16 "Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty (proud), and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes (ogle, blink coquettishly, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:"

Some translations define "wanton" as using eye paint. Not sure about that one.

Jeremiah 4:30 "And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou [B]rentest [/B](paint the eyes, as if enlarging them) thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life".

Jude 1:8 " 8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile (primarily, to stain, to tinge or dye with another colour, as in the staining of a glass, hence, to pollute, contaminate, soil, defile) the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

These are the only scriptures I can see that speak on painting the face or skin. In the context of the above scriptures they appear to be addressing the moral and spiritual character of the people. In other words, these scriptures, IMO, don't appear to be pointing at the items used, but the person using them.

Also, when we look at I Peter 3:5 "For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:" The word adorn is defined as "putting in proper order, decorate (literally or figuratively).

Apparently, moderation, in all things, is the key! We can use anything available to us and turn that into evil use. It's has always been about our heart and character.

Yes but one must also love his brother so that you do not help him faulter. Women knowing the weakness of man have a great obligation in this area. As do men as well. Also my point is the early church writings immediately after the bible etc... Today's american society is all about looks and the flesh and the church as been sucked in and justified it's passion and making the term modesty equal moderately fulfilling the desires of the flesh.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Glorifying the flesh is against biblical principle and something the early church fathers taught against concerning jewelry and makeup etc... If you do not realize what the early curch fathers said which is consistent across the board you need to examine again what they said. Envy is one of the natural sins of women and when they start glorifying their looks they become stumbling blocks for others and at that draw desire from men. That is not love! Same with men as well.

A couple questions here:

Is there any scipture against makeup?

Does glorifying the flesh include pretty color clothes and hair dos as well?

Isn't colorful ties glorifying the flesh?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

A couple questions here:

Is there any scipture against makeup?

Does glorifying the flesh include pretty color clothes and hair dos as well?

Isn't colorful ties glorifying the flesh?

flawed arguments...

You are trying to justify the error of one because of common use of another. Thus I know X probably wears a tie so if he answers Y I got him in contradiction. Problem is you first need to justify the tie as necessary apparell and does it glorfiy the body uneedfully. Again read what the early church fathers said and you will be amazed that they make the UPC look like a harlot in some cases. What they taqught goes directly in line with the principles of the bible.

What is the point of changing and highlighting your appearance like most do?
Then you will probably answer with such a modest ...to look nice or some other mild answer without trying to show love for the desire of the flesh. My question would be, so a person cannot look nice without those things that highlight and draw more attention? They are used to elevate ones natural status. Then it spreads like wildfire women trying to keep status, to get or keep their men as they feel insufficient etc... She looks like.... and if I don't look like.... I lose.... or won't get...... Nothing but pride and envy of the flesh making others fail and nver thinking about love.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Yes but one must also love his brother so that you do not help him faulter. Women knowing the weakness of man have a great obligation in this area. As do men as well. Also my point is the early church writings immediately after the bible etc... Today's american society is all about looks and the flesh and the church as been sucked in and justified it's passion and making the term modesty equal moderately fulfilling the desires of the flesh.

I do agree with you that - today - it's more about the flesh and sinful desires. All of the covers of magazines in the grocery stores are crying out - "Look like a model, be accepted!!", so, yes, I understand what you are saying.

I just believe it is more imperative, than ever, to teach moderation and love. Love covers a multitude of sins.

Men have always been weak and I don't think I can contribute a woman's wearing of makeup as his downfall. She has many enticements she can use. It doesn't have to be the makeup.

I would prefer to lead a person to Christ and allow him to do the work. Watch what He moves on a person to take off or put on. It's a much more powerful work and thing to watch, IMO.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

A couple questions here:

Is there any scipture against makeup?

Does glorifying the flesh include pretty color clothes and hair dos as well?

Isn't colorful ties glorifying the flesh?

....or making sure your cloths are ironed/wrinkle free (relatively)

....or that your hair is combed

....or that your yard is mowed

...car washed and cleaned inside

..house painted

..windows cleaned

The list is endless.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Isaiah 3:16 "Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty (proud), and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes (ogle, blink coquettishly, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:"

Some translations define "wanton" as using eye paint. Not sure about that one.

Jeremiah 4:30 "And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou [B]rentest [/B](paint the eyes, as if enlarging them) thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life".

Jude 1:8 " 8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile (primarily, to stain, to tinge or dye with another colour, as in the staining of a glass, hence, to pollute, contaminate, soil, defile) the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

These are the only scriptures I can see that speak on painting the face or skin. In the context of the above scriptures they appear to be addressing the moral and spiritual character of the people. In other words, these scriptures, IMO, don't appear to be pointing at the items used, but the person using them.

Also, when we look at I Peter 3:5 "For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:" The word adorn is defined as "putting in proper order, decorate (literally or figuratively).

Apparently, moderation, in all things, is the key! We can use anything available to us and turn that into evil use. It's has always been about our heart and character.

Good post PO!

The last paragraph nails it!

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I do agree with you that - today - it's more about the flesh and sinful desires. All of the covers of magazines in the grocery stores are crying out - "Look like a model, be accepted!!", so, yes, I understand what you are saying.

I just believe it is more imperative, than ever, to teach moderation and love. Love covers a multitude of sins.

Men have always been weak and I don't think I can contribute a woman's wearing of makeup as his downfall. She has many enticements she can use. It doesn't have to be the makeup.

I would prefer to lead a person to Christ and allow him to do the work. Watch what He moves on a person to take off or put on. It's a much more powerful work and thing to watch, IMO.

Yes she has many enticements and glorifying her flesh to draw attention isa huge one in which she or he draws forth the passion of others.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Yes she has many enticements and glorifying her flesh to draw attention isa huge one in which she or he draws forth the passion of others.

I think, in some cases, that could be true. BUT, I just don't see makeup as drawing passion out of a man. At least not across the board.

Perhaps some of the men could comment on that. My husband isn't attracted by it, so I can only speak for him. I thought a woman's breasts and body would be the main attraction.