180 Degrees - Page 3

pelathais · #21 03-11-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

I have to know what gets you thrown out of a church.. I myself think that god looks down on that and those that do that will have to answer.

I've related the details here before. Essentially, I objected when one preacher was killed to cover up the adultery of another.

Folks here want me to "build a bridge and get over it."

I remember the last time I spoke to Sherri's brother. We were standing in a cold and windy graveyard. He asked me why I didn't have on an overcoat. I told him that I was fine. I was lying, it was cold. My coat was in my car. In the front seat of my car was the man responsible for the funeral we were attending. I didn't want to go over there, just yet. I still hadn't "gotten over it."

I asked the widow's pastor how she and her kids were doing last year. He choked back tears and caught his breath several times while talking to me. After "all these years," (12) he has never "gotten over it."

The widow is still widowed. Unless someone here can bring back the dead she will never get over that. Her children are still fatherless. Unless someone here can bring back the dead, they will never get over it.

I refused to go into the church services where the adulterer preached. I was deemed to be "hindering revival." I confess, I have never really gotten over that.

A few weeks later the adulterer officially dumped his wife, a very beautiful woman. I don't think she'll ever get over that.

Hoovie · #22 03-11-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Received the HG in a UPC church, still in...'nuf said.

Ditto!

Nice to see you monk!

Hoovie · #23 03-11-2009, 03:42 PM

pel, What can i say? Nothing i suppose... but I am very sorry for you and all involved and offer my prayers.

KWSS1976 · #24 03-11-2009, 03:45 PM

Yea that is way deep pel sorry for you also having to go through that. Thanks for sharing.

YEPhesMycousin · #25 03-11-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

Well, my background has some very abrupt and complete reversals. I was raised UPC and my father is a UPC Pastor, even still today. It was all that I ever knew and I believed it with all of my heart. I never imagined being anything other than UPC.

As a teenager, I walked away from the Lord and remained away for many years and it cost me dearly. Finally after a major overdose of Meth and Ecstasy, I more than willingly surrendered my life to the Lord and began serving Him wholeheartedly. It was wonderful to be delivered after so many years. Of course, I was back in the UPC church and soon I was on the evangelistic field and even going into many schools in Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas & Arkansas sharing the testimony of my deliverance through the power of the Holy Ghost. It was an awesome time.

I can't say what it was, but something about 5 or 6 years ago made me begin wondering about (not completely doubting), but wondering about the validity of some of the standards. However, no light bulbs really came on at that time, but there was a slight question mark there. Then about 3 1/2 years ago, I was lying in bed late one night reading my Bible. My wife was asleep next to me and I was reading things that I've read all my life and preached from as well. I read Jesus' words where He said that He didn't come to do away with the Law, but to fulfill it. A few minutes later His words, "It Is Finished" flashed through my mind and instantly - The Lights Came On! I suddenly realized that He truly did for us what we could never do ourselves. He did the "Work" in our behalf! He became our substitute through His life, death, burial and resurrection. I began yelling and crying all at the same time and I jumped out of the bed running around the bedroom. My wife, being startled from her sleep, was like, "What in the world do you see?" I told her, "Honey, we're trying to be saved through the Cross, plus our works, when it's not our works at all. It's our faith in the work that Christ did FOR us that saves us!"

Anyway, from that point on we both did a 180 and it was a quick work. We left the UPC 3 weeks later and it was literally one of the hardest things that I've ever had to do in my life. A short time later, we started a new non-denominational church and today, it is blessed and doing tremendous!

To God Be All The Glory!

I get very bothered about people who say we don't have to do "any works". Then why get baptized? Then get the Holy Ghost? Why Repent? There are absolute acts of obedience that one must do to be saved. Yes, there are works that we must do. The workd we don't have to do is buy our salvation. God already did that on the cross. Jesus said, save yourselves. That is a work. He also said, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. That is a work.

Don't tell me we don't have to do any works.

Hoovie · #26 03-11-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YEPhesMycousin

I get very bothered about people who say we don't have to do "any works". Then why get baptized? Then get the Holy Ghost? Why Repent? There are absolute acts of obedience that one must do to be saved. Yes, there are works that we must do. The workd we don't have to do is buy our salvation. God already did that on the cross. Jesus said, save yourselves. That is a work. He also said, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. That is a work.

Don't tell me we don't have to do any works.

I did not see where anyone said "we don't have to do any works". It's because we have recieved so great a salvation though - not to gain salvation by virtue of our doings.

pelathais · #27 03-11-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YEPhesMycousin

I get very bothered about people who say we don't have to do "any works". Then why get baptized? Then get the Holy Ghost? Why Repent? There are absolute acts of obedience that one must do to be saved. Yes, there are works that we must do. The workd we don't have to do is buy our salvation. God already did that on the cross. Jesus said, save yourselves. That is a work. He also said, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. That is a work.

Don't tell me we don't have to do any works.

A lot of the confusion in this discussion surrounds the definition of "works." I have a difficult time seeing how receiving a gift could be described as a "work." Tell that to a kid at their birthday party.

"Get ready Sweetheart... you have a LOT of WORK to do!"

YEPhesMycousin · #28 03-11-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

A lot of the confusion in this discussion surrounds the definition of "works." I have a difficult time seeing how receiving a gift could be described as a "work." Tell that to a kid at their birthday party.

"Get ready Sweetheart... you have a LOT of WORK to do!"

Sure, they can sit and look at their gift or they can open it.

freeatlast · #29 03-11-2009, 04:18 PM

After researching into how our most holy upc standards were arrived at. Doctrines I had been assured were "bible" and necesary to salvation.

When I found our holiness doctrines were twisted out of improper interpretation of scripture I had to ask myself what other doctrines we hold dear might also be in error.

A year long study on the doctrines of justification , sanctification, grace and faith led me to conclusion that our salvation doctrine was also built on as a house of cards.

With me it went much like the statement that UC three steppers use to describe the slippery slope. "First go the standards, then goes the doctrine."

Almost 40 years in Pentecost and I have never felt closer to God than I have now with this understanding of God's word.

pelathais · #30 03-11-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

pel, What can i say? Nothing i suppose... but I am very sorry for you and all involved and offer my prayers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Yea that is way deep pel sorry for you also having to go through that. Thanks for sharing.

It's a systemic problem, really. In a sense, all the players, myself included, could have said at anytime, "I'm doing the right thing here..."

"I'm trying to save a marriage and a ministry..." "I'm struggling, but I mean well..."

But, look at the result. We need to look beyond our own little group or our own narrow plans and realize that our lives are intertwined with the lives of others. We must keep asking ourselves, "What is the potential impact of my actions or behavior on the lives of others."

It is when we set ourselves to doing good and fostering healthy relationships that we can begin to say that we're doing the "King's business."