Cosmetics???

[OnTheFritz]

Wow. I need to catch up on this thread so I can see who to direct my liberal drive-by comments toward... . I'll be back.

MissB being called a liberal? Sounds like I need to offer some perspective. You think SHE'S liberal....

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by coadie

You got it pointed out to you and kept it up. You didn't get it.

Gossip is speaking to another person about someone else. You kept it up and i see you are justifying it. You would not stop.


Then you kept defending it.

I forgive people easily.

Was "probably a bad idea" tells us this is more about saving face. You are not serious at all.

Fortunately I am not a victum. I know better that to give out my first and last name to people that want to mess with folks they don't like. I can read the motives of people very well and se people piling on in groups when someone comes along and dares question the status quo.

No, coadie. I have no reason to safe face. I have friends here--they like me even when I'm behaving badly.

Look, I wouldn't apologize if I didn't think I needed to. I've definitely gone out of my way to deliberately provoke you on this thread, and that's not very Christian of me. So, I'm sorry. You're not required to accept it, believe it or forgive me. But I'm requiring an apology of myself. No one PMed me, phoned me or emailed me and demanded that I give you one.

Sometimes its fun to behave badly, but that doesn't make it right, does it? That's all I'm doing. Just correcting myself.

Have a great evening!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by coadie

You all can't find the word cosmetics was even invented in biblical times but expect us to believe there even was any around at the time.

Have you gathered from my posts that I'm in full support of worldly fashion trends and heavily made up faces?

We know that cosmetics existed in biblical times, because as you posted, Egyptians (and then the Greeks) were the first ancient civilizations thought to make use of cosmetics thousands of years ago.

Also, the painting of the eyes is mentioned in Ezekiel 23:40. The word used for "paintedst" (they eyes) is kachal, and means "to paint (with stibium)". [stibnite--a lead-gray mineral)

Obviously people did use cosmetics in biblical times. It wouldn't have been mentioned in scripture otherwise. The question is not about history--the question is whether or not God is alright with it.

The problem with using a scripture like Ezekiel 23:40 is that immediately preceding the "paintedst" phrase, it says that they washed themselves, so if painting the eyes is wrong, by the context of that verse, then washing oneself is wrong by the same token. Do you see the problem with that?

You also don't seem to understand that saying it isn't a sin is different from giving overwhelming approval of its use. I don't know that we could clearly say that smoking is a sin, but there are certainly all sorts of reasons why it's bad for you, why it seems counterproductive to the Christian life, and why we should avoid it--including Biblical reasons and principles.



Another word used for cosmetics in the Bible is puwk, and means "antimony, stibium, black paint, eye cosmetic."

It is used 4 times, 2 of which refer to makeup/cosmetics:

II Kings 9:30 "And when Jehu was come to Jezreel, Jezebel heard of it; and she painted her face, and tired her head, and looked out at a window."

Just a quick comment here--this shows that makeup WAS a part of the Jewish culture, even if it was borrowed from the Egyptians.

Next usage:

Jeremiah 4:30 "And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life."

2 things: Notice the word "Though", which is conditional, and notice that God says, "...in vain shalt thou make thyself fair;"

Guess what the meaning of "fair" is? It's from the word "yâphâh", and means: "...to be bright, that is, (by implication) beautiful: - be beautiful, be (make self) fair (-r), deck."

The word is used again in Song of Solomon, btw:

Song of Solomon 1:15 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes.


The context of the verse in Jeremiah has to do with the idea that she(Israel) will not be able to please her "lovers"--they will still seek to destroy her. It is not saying that it is wrong to be fair or beautiful.


Anyway...the point is--cosmetics were used in biblical times. It is probably true that they originated in Egypt, but if you'll recall, Israel spent quite a bit of time in Egypt, so it's quite possible they picked up the customs. It is also possible that since Egypt and Israel are in the same Middle Eastern region, and they shared those customs. Israel is only about 200 miles from Egypt, as the crow flies.

By the way, did you know that men and women alike in the middle east painted around their eyes with kohl? It was to help protect their eyes from the sun.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by coadie

We have. it is for a houghty pridefuiul look.

So the only way a man can have a prideful look is to put makeup on???

Are good looking women that don't need makeup going to hell because they are beautify?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by coadie

Escherichia coli (commonly E. coli; pronounced /ˌɛʃɪˈrɪkiə ˈkoʊlaɪ/, /iː ~/), is a Gram negative bacterium that is commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded animals

In the course of dining, we commonly wash our silverware. We don't use the same spoon time and again. It's a bacteria thing. But who washes their lipstick? Skin brush? Mascara applicator. I guarantee you if a patient gets a post operative moxycillin resistant infection at some poijnt they will trace it back and take cultures from workers, workers hands, equipment and even back to their make up and apparel.

People don't use lipstick as eating utensils. So far your arguments don't sound convincing that using cosmetics is a sin. You can get e-coli poisoning without using makeup.

Of course we all carry e-coli. It is in your mouth and you put it on your lipstick.

Where do you get that from, that we all have it in our mouths?. If someone has it in their mouth they will become sick when they swallow, won't they?. But let's assume that is true, it will also get on your toothbrush. So is a toothbrush a sin? Is sneezing a sin? Coughing? Is kissing your wife a sin?

Of course it grows and ripens when it hits the lower GI tract. Again the bacteria that entered your mouth are on the lipstick and take a trip to better grwoing conditions.

Is this supposed to be an argument that cosmetics is a sin?

Think or better yet ponder over your favorite guy catching lipstick and it's bacterial playground. Do you tell the men that get a kiss? They use clean spoons but kiss lips that have lipstick that is infested with bacteriA? DON'T EVEN TELL ME THERE MUST BE AN ANTI BACTERIAL INCREDIENT IN LIPSTICK. iF THERE WASS, THEN IT WOULD CURE BAD BREATH.

If it's already in the mouth and you can get it on lipstick by pressing your lips to that stick then pressing your lips to a guy is not going to matter if you use cosmetics or not..

BTW lipstick goes on the lips, not on the tongue. Anti-bacterial properties in lipstick can't cure bad breath.

Bad breath contributes to the bad odor of the accidental methane discharges.

And that has to do with cosmetics being a sin how?

I still only come up with the desire to create appeal and a haughty look as a motive in favor of cosmetics for the eye. To be seen.

So wanting to or being attractive is a sin?

The hebrew word used in scripture that is tied to cosmetics is to scoure, purify or clean. Maybe like a defoliant or cleanser.

What? So not to clean your self is a sin????

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by coadie

Y

Biblical Hebrew has no words for makeup. Please don't expect us to consider they had it if NO one discussed it in Hebrew. The word pain is there. Again it traces to Egyptians.

YEs Hebrew does have a way to express makeup.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by coadie

There are a lot of topics in your post.

I lived in sin in the world. Picked up a lady that was to become my wife. She and friends at the beech enjoyed the sun. No makep up in the yacht racing, beech volley ball crowd years ago but the sunworshippers sure did the tan and the skinpy swim suits. Even tanning is done for purposes of idolatry often times to get a look. (and melanoma later on) And I know folks that are tanned and it is not intentional. it just comes with what they do and has no objective.

I am opposed to most artifical colorations because the motives under them are the bigger problem

This thread argues that it is all ok because the bible is not explicit about cosmetics. The bible is incredibly explicit about attitudes and cosmetics almost 100% are used and to the behavioral world are such an obvious display of attitudes. (they don't remind us of sack cloth and ashes)

I am ok with cosmetic surgery of a reconstructive nature. I am also aware of augmentatins and cosmetic revision surgeries often have latter side effects.


Cosmetics eye salve A&D ointments, lotions, scrubbing products cleansing, fragrances, shaving grooming, ex foliating, etc are fine

Paints, lipstick, colored nail polish, rouge, tattoos, mascara, eye shadow, no.
Piercings, loudly no!!!

Now if the gossipers want to bristle, I will also tell them that the wiccans, witches pagans see our intent in using things as a way to be supportive of many of their core beliefs. that means for example, a satanist feels good seeing tattos. He sees it as having a common ground with him.

They need to learn how false religions think to see that purity and modesty really do set us appart. Purity and modesty inside and outside.

Just out of curiosity, do you really spell speak as speek and beach as beech? I think I can understand why some are or were asking about your education. That is not what gossip is. Gossip is spreading private rumers about someone behind their backs.

[Truthseeker]

E-coli in the mouth and lipstick, now I heard everything! E-coli is in your gut not lips or mouth.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Just out of curiosity, do you really spell speak as speek and beach as beech? I think I can understand why some are or were asking about your education. That is not what gossip is. Gossip is spreading private rumers about someone behind their backs.

Of corse he duz!!!!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

E-coli in the mouth and lipstick, now I heard everything! E-coli is in your gut not lips or mouth.

Shhh!!! Don't interrupt somebody with the facts when they are on a roll.