He Was More than Just a Man

[Praxeas]

How can Christ have a deity when you said God did not become Christ. God was only IN Christ? God is in us too but that does not make us God. What is sounds like is adoptionism...that is God made a man, called Christ, God also

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How can Christ have a deity when you said God did not become Christ. God was only IN Christ? God is in us too but that does not make us God. What is sounds like is adoptionism...that is God made a man, called Christ, God also

"God also..." what? What's the matter with you?

j/k. "Adoptionism" is the first thing I thought of when reading Nina's post. This is a very ancient view, but also very wrong, IMHO.

[Praxeas]

I have noticed some OPs seem to have a Christ that is a man that was made God because God gave him the Spirit without measure....that makes two persons...one is God and the other is a man that was made God. Besides adoptionism that sure sounds like two Gods.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have noticed some OPs seem to have a Christ that is a man that was made God because God gave him the Spirit without measure....that makes two persons...one is God and the other is a man that was made God. Besides adoptionism that sure sounds like two Gods.

But He was a man, a human being in every sense of the word. God became a man. He was limited in his knowledge (Mark 13:32). He was even known as "the Son of Man" to emphasize His humanity (Luke 19:10 and others).

*** I've re-read your post above and I think I picked up on a nuance that I missed at first. I'm not certain that I've observed this among OP's, however, but I agree with your point. A man was NOT made God. Instead, God became a man. I suppose that's an important distinction and not something I've really thought about much before.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

But He was a man, a human being in every sense of the word. God became a man. He was limited in his knowledge (Mark 13:32). He was even known as "the Son of Man" to emphasize His humanity (Luke 19:10 and others).

*** I've re-read your post above and I think I picked up on a nuance that I missed at first. I'm not certain that I've observed this among OP's, however, but I agree with your point. A man was NOT made God. Instead, God became a man. I suppose that's an important distinction and not something I've really thought about much before.

Right, God added Humanity to Himself...as opposed to God adding His Deity to someone else (some man)

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And consider this. Probably a good number of Saints do not have sin in their life as we speak.

Are they not then perfect as far as the Lord is concerned? Why are people so against this?

If the result is the same (those who desire sinlessness seek it),
then does it matter if Pastors teach it or not?

In other words, should we blame the Pastors for something that every Saint should be allowing the Holy Spirit to be leading them into?

Are folks 'against this' because they know that, as You've admitted, You haven't attained it, so why call it something that it isn't?

Nina

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Nina

If the result is the same (those who desire sinlessness seek it),
then does it matter if Pastors teach it or not?

In other words, should we blame the Pastors for something that every Saint should be allowing the Holy Spirit to be leading them into?

Are folks 'against this' because they know that, as You've admitted, You haven't attained it, so why call it something that it isn't?

Nina

At present the result is that almost none believe they can walk without sin in their life. It matters if they preach it because thats their job is to present every man "perfect in Christ". Col. 1:26

When you say I have not attained it you miss the point. Its simply living free from sin on a consistent basis.

Not only that if I myself am not doing that it in no way changes the commands of Yeshua or the purpose of his ministry. If I allow sin in my life and am cut off from the Messiah that would help no one. They still are required to be perfect and complete in the will of God.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Raven

Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 10:36
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God ?

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Let's just simply let the Scripture speak for itself. Jesus is without a doubt, the Son of God! Some seem to shy away from this truth. Others want to say, "Oh I know it says that but we really know he is ........" [Whatever it is they are trying to prove]
Jesus told Peter, that the revelation is that, he indeed is the Son of God!
I'm afraid we "oneness" believers are close to being like the Mormons and JW's with extra-Biblical "revelations" we conjured up somewhere. This post won't go over well with some but that's alright the Truth will "dawn" eventually on them. To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.
Raven

ABSOLUTELY... preach it!!

[ForeverBlessed]

Ok, I am going to jump in here... head first... I realize to some this might be unorthodox.. this is what God has revealed to me...and not man... this has been totally by study and searching the scriptures for myself.

The very life of Christ was the outward manifestation of the Word spoken… every Word, deed and action was God… God is one, but he is Spirit… Jesus Christ was one with God in Spirit…. but he was the son of God.

Jesus Christ was the perfect example for us to follow… his ability to submit himself to the Father gives us the assurance that by his example, we can live an overcoming life to sin… When we are born of the Spirit….we believe that Jesus is the son of God… through faith, we are also made one with God as having the mind of God… through the Spirit…

2 Cor 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1 Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Why is it so difficult for us to understand that we were also created in the image of his word... and we also are meant to be sons of God…. as in the very beginning… it has to begin with a thought…in the mind… Romans 12:2 but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind…

We are also the sons of God… 1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Phil 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Through the Spirit, we can do everything that he did… it isn’t his fault we are living below what we were created to do… it is our lack of knowledge.. and unbelief.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Do we believe him and take him at his word or not?

Because of victory, Jesus Christ is reigning and will forever… Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

We have his example to follow… to overcome also so that we might reign with him forever. It takes a total dying out to self, dying out to sin… only then will we suffer as he did… Paul counted it all joy to suffer… that isn’t suffering because we’ve made mistakes so the laws set in order in life teach us that brings glory to God…but the suffering that comes from walking the spiritual path of righteousness… the truly submitting ourselves to God so that we also reflect as Jesus Christ did on earth.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

No, I am not Trinitarian... God is one…. but I do believe the Word of God….and Jesus Christ was the son of God… i understand that I no longer believe mainstream.... but it is what God has given me.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus Christ is the son of God... was one with God in having the same mind...and in Spirit.

[Praxeas]

I don't know anyone, Trinitarian or Oneness that denies Jesus is the Son of God.

Saying "Jesus is the Son of God" as though that is some new or novel idea that we did not previously believe shows how ignorant many are of Oneness doctrine