Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the Meeting

It is unfortunate, but if some people choose to believe in fairy tales, and others do not, it is hard to pretend to respect the logic of those who choose to believe in fairy tales... regardless of how well-known they are.

It's like meeting someone for the first time, and finding that they seem intelligent, well-spoken, and you like the way they think, etc.

Then they start rambling about being kidnapped by space aliens... and of course, then you have to say, "Gee, look at the time!" and leave, even though you were really liking them up until that point.

And then other people get upset because you aren't concerned about maintaining relationships with people who believe they have been kidnapped by space aliens...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Amos

Interpretation:

In order for the UPC to flourish, we have to sacrifice those wicked cons like Wilson and Booker.

No one (to my knowledge) has called these two men "wicked." Also, no one is suggesting they be "sacrificed" or that anything in particular even be done with them.

These two men (and others), of their own volition have set out on a course of their own choosing do to whatever it is that they want to do.

To suggest thay are being "sacrificed" or even treated shabbily by the org is really disengenuous. It also does disservice to the fact that these men are doing exactly as they have chosen to do and are acting with their own free will.

The way Amos makes it sound, it seems we are dealing with mental patients who have cut themselves up so that others will "feel sorry" for them.

Or perhaps a better illustration is the Shia "Religious Police." In some areas they go about with whips and scourge "apostates" and "worldly" people right on the street. And then each year at Shura, they turn those whips around and beat themselves on the back to show how they have "suffered" all along for their religion, when in reality they themselves have inflicted all of the wounds- both on their brethren and now on themselves.

[tv1a]

Some of the names mentioned by amos may not have wanted titles, but one does not need titles to pull strings. A couple of those california people mention ran Paul Price under the bus a few years ago after the failed coup againt the General sup. The way Paul Price was treated by those he was trying to help is appalling.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

I just preached a very unique conference last week with two great Men of God. On one hand I had one of the Assistant General Superintendants and on the other hand I had one of the Coordinators of the Tulsa meeting.

For all the talk about 'recruiting' and 'stealing members' and 'unethical' that abounds I have to tell you that this isn't the spirit of the coordinators at all! They are kind gentlemen that are simply providing a grass roots meeting to discuss what steps to take to maintain an Apostolic atmosphere without the diminishing of Apostolic distinctives.

I spent several days with them and - AMAZINGLY - not one time did they ask me to come to the meeting (I'm personal friends with most of the names on the mail out and have never been asked or recruited to come) or to drag others with me if I should decide to go.

We had several candid conversations about recent events and I asked the coordinator point blank if the meeting was going to be a 'preaching' type meeting, a bloodbath or what... only to be told that what they want to do is NOTHING that would require anybody to leave the UPC. They simply want to talk options, hear suggestions and reiterate our goals as Apostolics.

I know this will seriously upset some people to know that it will neither be a...

• Gripe session
• UPC bashing meeting
• Flashback to the vicious splits of days gone by or
• A 'let's march out and make a statement' type meeting.

It's a meeting to gather suggestions and find a way to network men together who have begun to lose faith in the direction the Apostolic movement as a whole is going.

And, for what it's worth, I've talked to many who are involved or going to this meeting and have yet to hear any viciousness in their voices. Just a little sadness for the most part.

Thus, what most have surmised, heard gossiped about or interjected their own fabrications about... simply isn't true.

This post is sooooo funny in retrospect.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

This post is sooooo funny in retrospect.

What is the latest on the World Wide Pentecostal Wrestling Fellowship? Have they published their latest member numbers and has anybody compared the UPC ministerial roll today to two years ago to see if there is any discernable impact? I would especially be curios to see the numbers excluding local license, to see how many Genreal License and Ordained License ministers the UPC has today vs 2 years ago.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by CC1

What is the latest on the World Wide Pentecostal Wrestling Fellowship? Have they published their latest member numbers and has anybody compared the UPC ministerial roll today to two years ago to see if there is any discernable impact? I would especially be curios to see the numbers excluding local license, to see how many Genreal License and Ordained License ministers the UPC has today vs 2 years ago.

Their Annual Summit is coming up later this month. We are all invited to "See What God Has Done In 15 Months."

He created cosmos in an instant with His Word. Apparently these folks feel like it took Him 15 months to split off a chunk of the UPC.

[EA]

Man, if I had a dime for every lie these guys told back then I would be a rich man.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Their Annual Summit is coming up later this month. We are all invited to "See What God Has Done In 15 Months."

He created cosmos in an instant with His Word. Apparently these folks feel like it took Him 15 months to split off a chunk of the UPC.

The venue only seats 2300. That's what they said they had last year. I'm having even more difficulty attributing this "work" to anything the Almighty has done in the last 15 months. Maybe they'll have something more for us in a few weeks.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

This post is sooooo funny in retrospect.

This makes me think of the Lee Stoneking thread...becauuuussseee...I think that leaders often underestimate the power of suggestion. They can make a suggestion to an audience, veiled, implied or outright--and SOMEone is going to run with the implication. The overall intent will be ignored, assuming it was good intent.

Lee Stoneking--just preaching his thoughts--has, with Ruth Reider, inspired a sub culture of belief about cut hair that is patently unbiblical, and I seriously doubt that was his intent.

In THIS case, I think it WAS the intent to lay some framework, but perhaps things got out of hand and moved along quicker, and differently than was originally planned.

Irrelevant, really, because the end is still chaos and discord.

One preacher said to a group of fellow ministers about another preacher who wasn't present: "I had to let him go." "Why?" *quiet smile* "I can't say, but he did commit sin." Rumor mill took that quiet, vague comment and RAN away with it.

People are people everywhere.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

For all the talk about 'recruiting' and 'stealing members' and 'unethical' that abounds I have to tell you that this isn't the spirit of the coordinators at all!

With all respect, Elder, this may be true from YOUR perspective...however, my brother pastors a UPCI assembly in Illinois.

He told me he has been approached several times by WPFers to leave the UPCI and join them, and I don't mean just in the beginning. This is true in recent months...

Again, I am NOT doubting your word, but this is just your experience, and the view of the men you were with.

It is NOT the experience of everyone.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

This makes me think of the Lee Stoneking thread...becauuuussseee...I think that leaders often underestimate the power of suggestion. They can make a suggestion to an audience, veiled, implied or outright--and SOMEone is going to run with the implication. The overall intent will be ignored, assuming it was good intent.

Lee Stoneking--just preaching his thoughts--has, with Ruth Reider, inspired a sub culture of belief about cut hair that is patently unbiblical, and I seriously doubt that was his intent.

In THIS case, I think it WAS the intent to lay some framework, but perhaps things got out of hand and moved along quicker, and differently than was originally planned.

Irrelevant, really, because the end is still chaos and discord.

One preacher said to a group of fellow ministers about another preacher who wasn't present: "I had to let him go." "Why?" *quiet smile* "I can't say, but he did commit sin." Rumor mill took that quiet, vague comment and RAN away with it.

People are people everywhere.

Good post, Missy...