The word denial is coming to my mind for some reason.
Denial that your opinions are the correct ones isn't denial of The Problem in general.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
1. This isn't a UPC or UC issue. To make it one is simply ridiculous and stupid. It isn't because UPC and UC'ers are meanies who are against everything related to being fit and exercising. (this coming from a moderate/slight lib)
2. Serving sizes have substantially increased since the 1950s.
ie - this small then/now example is from Meals Matter.com
Serving Sizes Then and Now
Food or beverage 1950s Expanded 2003 portion
French fries 2.4 ounces up to 7.1 ounces
Fountain soda 7.0 ounces 12 to 64 ounces
Hamburger patty 1.6 ounces up to 8.0 ounces
Hamburger sandwich 3.9 ounces 4.4 to 12.6 ounces
Muffin 3.0 ounces 6.5 ounces
Pasta serving 1.5 cups 3.0 cups
Chocolate bar 1 ounce 2.6 to 8 ounces
Fast food and restaurants are all pushing for more, more, more.
3. More than a certain church problem, it's an eating habit problem. This is not limited to church or to certain organizations ... it's a lifestyle and habit. We go to church sunday and wednesday nights (or whatever schedule you have) and afterwards we're hungry from the energy used in service, so we do the logical thing our brains are telling us to do ... eat.
Again, serving sizes have increased, but also now you have to factor in the time of day. It's normally between 9 and 10 at night after an evening service by the time everyone gets to the restaurant and begins eating.
What happens next? You go home and go to bed ... allowing the food to just sit and create fat.
So again, it's not a UPC or UC thing ... nothing to do with standards (just go to WalMart and you'll see plenty of obese people in spandex shorts or sweats wandering around looking for the extra large bag of chips and 24 pack of soda.) ... it's an eating habit and serving size thing.
This is a comprehensive issue, there is no one size fits all solution, but again when someone willingly eats more than they need to sustain life we are talking something else going one.
Again the causes may be varied, portion size, habits of eating, lack of education around food, little or no exercise, lack of other options, but I do think that the elephant in the room is that we over eat.
Because it brings pleasure, ministry and life is general is tough enough that we all want relief, eating bad food and in big amounts I think to get that relief is a culprit that no one wants to talk about.
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Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
I agree. However, my point is that we can't just teach/preach against food, can we? LOL!!!! People have to eat. So it becomes a more complex problem than other addictive substances. It's easy to say, "Just say NO to drugs", or "Don't DRINK!!!!" But you can't say, "Don't eat." You have to teach people how to eat, and how to live, and in most cases eating right and living well are in stark contrast to the normal American way of life.
I looked at the WPF pics that Keith referenced (and some from another page on the site as well), and my thoughts were that it looks like a normal cross section of our culture, especially if you consider income, and there is a higher rate of obesity among lower income Americans.
I wholeheartedly agree that a LACK of exercise is a BIG problem. (pun intended ) Jeff and I try to keep our kids active, the girls are in basketball, Jeffrey is in baseball now, they're not allowed to play their video games or be on the computer for more than an hour a day, and TV is a privilege--not something they're allowed to just vegetate in front of for hours on end. We must be doing something right, because when given the choice, our kids would rather be outside riding their bikes or playing than inside watching TV or being lazy. And they're all three slim.
However, it isn't the church's fault in most cases. I think families don't take the time to be creative, OR they don't see health as being a priority--and that needs to be taught from the pulpit.
Two things, most of the preachers in those pictures are not from the lower social economic level (they don't reflect sampling of general society), also the big difference between us and culture at large, we have power, they don't.
__________________
Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
Wether you label it addiction or not doesn't matter, by in large, we have an epdemic that is problematic in the least, and will cause many a early death in the worst.
Again, when someone knows that something isn't good, knows that it will hurts them and yet they continue to do something, this is the a classic definition of addiction or at least bondage.
Lets walk through this,
We have and culture in general, (but remember we are not powerless, culture without God is) a large # of our people who are overweight.
They know it, know that there are consequences for it and yet continue to do it. Why? For us, my informed opinion is that many of food is one or in many cases the only pleasurable things we do. It feels good, tastes good, etc. It actually changes brain chemistry as designed to do.
I tentatively agree with you, Keith, except that I don't think most of them started overeating and bad eating habits when they came to church, but probably were never encouraged to stop by the church. Additionally, a pastor or teacher that is struggling with weight is going to feel ill at ease to then tell others how they need to address this area. We need a more supportive atmosphere in general, but that's a whole new thread. (Maybe)
As for unhealthy eating--do you ever watch Paula Deen? LOL!!! That woman starts every recipe with a "stick of butta." That's how MY family cooks. Butter, cream, oil, flour...all that classic Southern style good cooking. I've had to gradually learn how to cook differently, and still have it taste good. It isn't easy. My Grandma dredged every vegetable she cooked in eggs, flour, salt, pepper and fried them up in hot oil. (And it wasn't olive oil!!!!) It's a lifestyle that is learned, ingrained, and has to be combated--and it isn't easy, when that's all you've ever known.
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My working theory is that for many of us, we resort to the overuse of food when stressed in pain, depressed, mad, sad, or even glad. Thus a heart issue not morally of course but moods and emotions create desires for relief. Food is readily available to provide the fix.
That is a good theory, I'm just saying you should round it out, because obesity isn't caused by just that one thing. I'm not an emotional over-eater. I don't even overeat. It's the kinds of foods that I tend to eat that are the problem. Last year, for instance, I stopped using heavy whipping cream in my coffee, and went to creamer instead. I lost 5 lbs. from that change alone.
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By the way corret your post, I never mentioned the UPC, I mentioned Op's a group I am most familiar with.
I'm familiar with them, too.
I'm not arguing with you really--at least, not much. It's just that a complex issue can't be tritely solved with, "They're all addicted, and feeding their emotions." That may be true with some, but with others you're going to miss it by a mile, meaning--their problems will still be unsolved.
I do completely agree with you that this is a PROBLEM, and the church needs to start offering some solutions, both practical and spiritual.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I'd be interested in other comparisons between 1950s and today, in relation to exercise facilities, family/personal habits, etc. I don't believe people's appetites have changed much since the 50s, but what has changed are the foods we eat and the amount served.
I believe this is more relevant to the current obesity epidemic than one being UPC or UC. It reminds me of democrats and Bush ... everything was Bush's fault. Have a problem? Blame Dubya. See fat people in church ... must be the UPC. And I'm not UPC, I just think it's absurd to blame them for people's eating habits.
MISS B, I think that the whole point of what Keith and I are trying to convey is that people in this movement preach so hard about dress code and 'taking care of the temple' but yet they don't cause they eat fatty food that are fried and stuff. You can't have it both ways.....a temple takes up keep. It takes a fresh coat of paint and such.
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"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
) Jeff and I try to keep our kids active, the girls are in basketball, Jeffrey is in baseball now, they're not allowed to play their video games or be on the computer for more than an hour a day, and TV is a privilege--not something they're allowed to just vegetate in front of for hours on end. We must be doing something right, because when given the choice, our kids would rather be outside riding their bikes or playing than inside watching TV or being lazy. And they're all three slim. 
Linear Mode
