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05-17-2009, 11:22 PM
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
let's not go into that again.
I agree the kingdom is here now. It was among/within the folks a couple of thousand years ago while Jesus was ministering (ref Luke 17:21) and is still here.
I believe Jesus is ruling over a kingdom which is made up of all those who have submitted themselves to Him as sovereign and Lord.
But I also believe in a coming kingdom on earth which will be the fulfillment of many of the Old Testament prophecies. |
Thank you.
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05-17-2009, 11:23 PM
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Cannot be, since Jesus said the kingdom is something that is not visible.  Let's believe Jesus!
Anyway, back to the point of this thread. |
He did???????????????????????????????
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05-18-2009, 01:31 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
I believe it is speaking in terms of the glory of the work of the cross, since the cross was preplanned, and required this manifestation of God as Son to accomplish that.
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I call that Ideal glory
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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05-18-2009, 01:31 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
also we have to realize that in John's Christology there is not Son with the Father before the incarnation. There is the Logos with the Father
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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05-18-2009, 10:15 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
He did???????????????????????????????
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Yes!
Luke 17:20 KJV And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:20 CEV Some Pharisees asked Jesus when God's kingdom would come. He answered, "God's kingdom isn't something you can see.
Luke 17:20 GNB Some Pharisees asked Jesus when the Kingdom of God would come. His answer was, "The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen.
Good point, Praxeas. LOGOS not SON was before the incarnation.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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05-18-2009, 10:20 AM
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Yes!
Luke 17:20 KJV And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:20 CEV Some Pharisees asked Jesus when God's kingdom would come. He answered, "God's kingdom isn't something you can see.
Luke 17:20 GNB Some Pharisees asked Jesus when the Kingdom of God would come. His answer was, "The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen.
Good point, Praxeas. LOGOS not SON was before the incarnation. |
Elder Blume while Jesus was saying this they were SEEING the King. 
Just a thought along the way. Jesus set up a spiritual kingdom at Pentecost that does NOT do away with the promises of the earthly kingdom promised to Isreal. Each has it's on phase. Neither dissolves the other.
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05-18-2009, 11:20 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Elder Blume while Jesus was saying this they were SEEING the King.
Just a thought along the way. Jesus set up a spiritual kingdom at Pentecost that does NOT do away with the promises of the earthly kingdom promised to Isreal. Each has it's on phase. Neither dissolves the other. |
Seeing the king is not seeing the kingdom.
The kingdom is not something you can see. When we keep it like that, and add no ifs buts and maybes, it is simple and is not adding to the text. The Kingdom will never be visible.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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05-18-2009, 12:18 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
also we have to realize that in John's Christology there is not Son with the Father before the incarnation. There is the Logos with the Father
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It is my understanding that Jesus was the Word/Memra/Logos/Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament and the Word became flesh or took on the office of Sonship or became the Son at the incarnation.
1 John 5:7 (not in some Bibles) speaks of the triune God being Father, Word, and Holy Ghost.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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05-18-2009, 07:48 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
It is my understanding that Jesus was the Word/Memra/Logos/Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament and the Word became flesh or took on the office of Sonship or became the Son at the incarnation.
1 John 5:7 (not in some Bibles) speaks of the triune God being Father, Word, and Holy Ghost. |
kinda seems like a red flag to me.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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05-18-2009, 08:57 PM
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Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,650
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Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
Jesus had glory with the Father as his visible image before the World was. The Logos was both with God as well as being God.
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